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Doctrine of Unconditional Election 2

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Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Scriptures that indicate that election to Salvation took place before the elect individual existed:

Jeremiah 1:5 - “Before I formed thee in the belly, I knew thee, and before thou camest forth out of the womb, I sanctified thee.”



Matthew 25:34 - “Then shall the King say unto them on His right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.”


Ephesians 1:4 - “Even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world.”


2 Thessalonians 2:13 - “But we are bound to give thanks to God alway for you, brethren, beloved of the Lord, for that God chose you from the beginning unto salvation in sanctification of the Sprit and belief of the truth.”

Compare also the phraseology used as to the names written in the Lamb’s book of life, Revelation 13:8 -

“And all that dwell on the earth shall worship him (that is the beast), every one


Revelation 17:8 - “And they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, they whose name hath not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast how that he was, and is not, and shall come.”
 
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Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
You need more study. You'll find I'm right. God cannot forgive unless a person is justified. This is why Jesus looked for faith in those seeking healing. As did Paul. These were in fact born again Jews as Abraham was also faithful.
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Again, you sound confused. This thread is about unconditional election.
 
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Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Martin Marprelate said:
I think this purpose is revealed in John 6:39. 'This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing but raise it up at the last day.'
What we learn from this verse taken with a few others is that God the Father has a people whom He has chosen from the beginning of time (Ephesians 1:4-5). He has given these people to the Son who has redeemed every one of them through His death upon the cross (Revelation 5:9 etc.). He will not lose even one of them so God's grace must be irresistible.
But the very next verse tells us something else of God's purpose. 'And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.' That is why Christ says through Isaiah, 'Look to Me and be saved, all you ends of the earth! For I am God and there is no other.'

We have to hold these two great truths in parallel with each other. One is not more true than the other. But we also read that, 'It pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe (1 Corinthians 1:21; c.f. also Romans 10:14-15). God will have His elect saved through faith, through the medium of preaching.

The English reformer John Rogers, who deserves to be heard if only because he was the first of the martyrs under Queen Mary, said, "A man should go first to the school of repentance and faith before he goes to the university of election." And so he should. Preachers should not ask a man to look into his own heart; he'll find no help there! They should bid him look to Christ, to Christ crucified, to Christ made sin for us, to Christ risen and reigning in heaven, and bid him repent and trust in him for salvation. And if he will come, be he never so wicked a wretch, Christ will by no means cast him out.

But when he comes, it will be because God set His love upon him in eternity and has, in time, drawn him with lovingkindness (Jeremiah 31:3).
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So what is election conditioned upon ?
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
Thats still the Elect. No one else will or can believe in Him ! Dont be reluctant to tell people Christ died for Gods elect and that they as a result of that shall believe.
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Who did this when preaching the gospel? Are you preaching a different gospel in doing so?
 
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Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Martin Marprelate said:
Election is not conditioned on anything. It is unconditional. But no one gets saved without repenting of his sins and trusting in Christ for salvation. These two truths are not in opposition but in the sweetest harmony.
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Election guarantees the elect will repent and believe, but election isn't conditioned on those things.
 
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Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
How is what I say not directly related? Also, why the insults? If you had something to say, you wouldn't need to insult people.
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Dont mean to be insulting you. Put it like this then, Im confused on what you saying. How does it relate to unconditional election, thats my emphasis in this thread.
 
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Martin Marprelate

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Brightfame52 said:
Election guarantees the elect will repent and believe, but election isn't conditioned on those things.
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Let me try again. Election is unconditional, but those who are elect will repent and believe the Gospel at some point. If they don't, they are not elect.

I think we're agreeing with each other.
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
Dont mean to be insulting you. Put it like this then, Im confused on what you saying. How does it relate to unconditional election, thats my emphasis in this thread.
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Use Peter's sermon at Pentecost as an example of how to preach the gospel. It contains the gospel of the kingdom in its most developed state. Not a chirp about what you think it should be.
 
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Martin Marprelate

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Brightfame52 said:
Do you insinuate that to mention Christ died for His elect, His Sheep exclusively is a different Gospel like as in Gal 1:8-9 ?
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I wouldn't want to suggest that it's a different Gospel, but it is different from that preached in the book of Acts.
The longest sermon by Peter that we find there is that preached at Pentecost. There he bids his hearers, 'Repent and be baptized, every one of you .....for the remission of sins.'
The Longest sermon by Paul is the one he gave at Psidian Antioch, and in Acts of the Apostles 13:38-39, he says, 'Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through this Man is preached to you the forgiveness of sins; and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.' there is no mention of election in either extract. Not that election isn't true, but it doesn't figure in these sermons.
Incidentally, that last verse destroys the idea of Justification from eternity.
 
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Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Martin Marprelate said:
I wouldn't want to suggest that it's a different Gospel, but it is different from that preached in the book of Acts.
The longest sermon by Peter that we find there is that preached at Pentecost. There he bids his hearers, 'Repent and be baptized, every one of you .....for the remission of sins.'
The Longest sermon by Paul is the one he gave at Psidian Antioch, and in Acts of the Apostles 13:38-39, he says, 'Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through this Man is preached to you the forgiveness of sins; and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.' there is no mention of election in either extract. Not that election isn't true, but it doesn't figure in these sermons.
Incidentally, that last verse destroys the idea of Justification from eternity.
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Actually Peter preached Limited atonement in Acts 2, He was speaking specifically to the House of Israel Gods Elect Acts 2:36

36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
 
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Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
The word here translated "chose" is at no place* translated "elect." [* In the KJV as a reference.] εκλεγομαι
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Still the same. Jesus used them to refer to the same people Mk 13:20


And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
Still the same. Jesus used them to refer to the same people Mk 13:20


And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
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Good call.
 
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