Doctrines of Demons - 1 Tim. 4:1-2

[WestminsterMan]

A question: why would a truly saved person stay involved with a group that is not abiding in the vine?

snip...

My question is of great importance in these times we are in. Would you knowingly support a group(church) that has given itself to be apostate in it's teachings?

No. However, it isn't up to you to to judge that a person is in fact doing that. I have to work out my own salvation with fear and trembling and I certainly don't have the time nor the inclination to waste on such assinie and fruitless comparisons.

Would you knowingly stay with a group(church) which never was on solid ground from it's inception. My friends and brethren, the Apostle Paul warned the first century Church to beware of the false teaching and to mark them who would teach contrary to the doctrine which they had received of the Apostle(s). Not only mark them, but have nothing to do with them.

Well, there are plenty of Christians out there who probably believe that you and your church fall into Paul's catagory. So what?

snip...

Now I would ask another question, where is your allegiance? You say you love God and serve the Lord Jesus, then why don't you begin knocking down the altars of baal that are all around us.

Because it's not my place to do that nor is it your's. However, I can tell you this... if you literally go into a church and knock down their alter, you won't make it out unscathed... at least not down here in South Alabama. :smilewinkgrin:

How is it that a whole generation can proclaim the gospel of Christ and disregard the pagan altars that have been set up in the camp? Is there any zeal for the things of Christ today? Or is everything going to turn out to be lip service. Many of today's denominational churches are completely apostate, have set up idols and altars to worship the god of this world- the god of emotion and feeling good in their sin.

You're a bit preachy there aren't you? Baptists are a denomination and this is a baptist board. (P.s. I believe that the name of God should always start with a capital G)

I tell you and the Spirit of God will tell you, that the god of this world is satan(lucifer) and if a church wants to follow his teachings and ways then get out of it!

Hmmm... Please provide us with a list of those churches that fall into that category lest we follow them.

If you know what is right then do it. We are not living in a day when we have the comfort of thinking we have time to debate such things. No age has ever really had that comfort. To deny the existence of demons is crazy...to debate it is worthless.

Yet that is precisely what you have done here.

WM

 

[WestminsterMan]

You love telling everyone else how ignorant, misinformed, and arrogant they are

snip...

Not everyone... just yourself and DHK.

You are not a Landmark Baptist but have lied because no Landmark Baptist would ever say things you have said. How do I know? Because I have known Landmark Baptist for 50 years. I have attended a Landmark Baptist College. You are not even remotely Landmark Baptist in your soterilogy or ecclesiology.

More empty rhetoric from a vapid and empty source...

If you come back, try to deal with scripture in an exegetical fashion instead of just insulting those who do.

When I find someone who does, I will certainly consider it.

WM

 

[Dr. Walter]

<b>EVALUTION?</b>

I've already forgiven you, and won't talk to you again.

So insults according to your way of thinking is simply to charge you with pitting scripture against scripture and concluding that your exposition is "pure nonsense"???? You talk about pride, your response is full of it. I simply pointed out the contextual data that exposes your misinterpretation! Since you cannot respond intelligently to the data presented you make personal attacks on the person presenting the data. What arrogance!

Again, here is the contextual data

1. PEOPLE are the subject as they are the "some" which shall depart from the faith.

2. Their departure from the faith is due to demonic seduction - "seducing" spirits

3. The tools to seduce are "doctrines" of demons

4. The consequences of such seduction by "doctrines of demons" are speaking lies and a "seared conscience"

5. Examples of such demonic "doctrines" that seduce "some" to depart from the faith are given in verses 3-6

6. Paul is saying nothing different than John in 1 John 4:1-5.

 

[Dr. Walter]

Not everyone... just yourself and DHK.



More empty rhetoric from a vapid and empty source...



When I find someone who does, I will certainly consider it.

WM

More proof you have openly lied and misrepresented yourself.

 

[Dr. Walter]

Really? Oh - I see. There are no mitigating factors involved in one's eternal judgment, so YOU can just look at a list of sins/beliefs, and if a person believes a certain way, or acts a certain way contrary to your list, then they are bound for hell. Yep - DHK has spoken and that's IT!

I find your position to be an extremely legalist view of scripture at best, and at worst, arrogantly presumptuous. Using your "method", you must necessarily condemn the mentally retarded and the mentally ill to hell, as well as those who have died never having heard the word of God.

Do you actually believe that YOU - little fallible DHK - can know the mind of God in the matter? ASStounding! The Scriptures do tell us what sins will preclude one from the reward of Heaven, but they give no human the authority to judge others worthy of heaven or hell - that authority belongs to Jesus Christ. Even Paul was sometimes unsure of his own eternal destination, much less that of others. If people here want to rant against a belief, this one seems to me to be a REAL doctrine of demons!

WM

Neither DKH or myself presume to judge anyone. The Word of God has already made such judgements and you will either stand with the Word of God or against it. We stand with the judgements made by God's Word. For example:

1. John 3:36 makes the judgement that all who do not believe in Christ are under condemnation. Hence, it is no personal judgement on our part to stand with God's Word and say that all who have not believed in Christ are under condemnation.

2. Luke 13:3,5 makes the judgement that all who do not repent will perish. Hence, it is no personal judgement on our part to stand with God's Word and say all who have not repented of sin will perish.

3. 1 Tim. 4:1-5 delcares that all who forbid marriage and forbid eating of certain meats have been seduced by demons and such teachings are doctrines of demons. Hence, it is no personal judgement on our part to stand with God's Word and say all who embrace such teachings have been seduced by demons and such teachings are doctrines of demons.

4. Gal. 1:8-9 declares that all who embrace another gospel than what Paul preached are accursed. Hence, it is no personal judgement on our part to stand with God's Word and say that all who preach "another gospel" are accursed by God.

YOU have the same choice! YOU can stand with what God's Word declares to be the fruits of a lost man (Mt. 7:15,20) versus the fruits of a saved man (Gal. 5:21-22) or YOU can stand against God's Word and all who stand with God's word and what His Word declares to be essential to be saved and what is demonstratable proof of being lost.

When a person stands against God's Word they stand against God. It is easy to see where a person stands! Just compare what they say to what God's Word says! Your words demonstrate where you stand.

 

[Dr. Walter]

1 ¶ Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Ask yourself, what is the Spirit expressly warning?

Answer - "some shall depart from the faith" -

He is not talking about demons when he says "some" and he is not talking about doctrines ABOUT demons when he says "from the faith" The core of the faith has just been previously outlined in 1 Tim. 3:15-16. It is the house of God that is the pillar and ground "OF THE TRUTH" and it is the Person and work of Christ that is the core truth of salvation. The Spirit is expressly warning that some shall depart from both the pillar and ground of the truth and the gospel of truth.



Ask yourself why will some depart from the faith?

ANSWER - giving heed"

Their departure from the pillar and ground of the truth and the gospel of truth is due to "giving heed" to something contrary than "the faith"!

Ask yourself what is it they give heed unto that will cause their departure from the faith?

ANSWER: They will give heed to "seducing spirits."

He is saying exactly the same thing as John says in 1 John 4:1. John warns his readers to "try the spirits to see whether they are of God because" they seduce or deceive through "false prophets" and their seduction is exposed through what they TEACH versus what God's Word teaches (1 Jn. 4:2-4).

Ask yourself what do such "spirits" use to seduce "some" so that they depart from "the faith"?

ANSWER: "doctrines of demons"

He does not say "doctrines ABOUT demons" but rather he is saying the very exact same thing John says in 1 John 4:2-6 - false doctrines that originate with demons as John says there are but only two sources of teachings:

"Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error." - 1 Jn. 4:6b


Ask yourself, who do demons use to convey their errors?

ANSWER: "Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;"

Paul identifies the errors or false "doctrines" with both the demons and the humans being used by the demons just as John does in 1 John 4:1. They are those who speak LIES instead of "the faith" or "the truth." They are those who have "their conscience seared with a hot iron." They are incapable of understanding the truth.

Ask yourself, what sort of doctrines expose such demonic led false teachers? How are they to be recognized?

ANSWER: "Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth."

Paul specifies such doctrines that Timothy was facing at Ephesus whereas John specifies such doctrines that his readers were facing (1 Jn. 4:2-4). However, both Paul and John identify demons as the source of all error that opposes "the faith" once delivered.

The idea that Paul is referrng to "doctrines ABOUT demons" is an impossible interpretation of this text. Both the grammar and common sense must be thrown out the window to embrace such an idea.

 

[Dr. Walter]

1 John 4: 1 ¶ Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.


2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.


4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.


1 Jn. 4:1-6 and 1 Tim. 4:1-6 are basically the same kind of warning about the same thing but with different doctrinal manifestations.


1 Tim. 4:1 ¶ Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;


3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.


6 ¶ If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.

There is the warning about the influence of demons (1 Tim. 4:1-2; 1 Jn. 4:1). There is the doctrinal manifestation of such demons (1 Tim. 4:3-5; 1 Jn. 4:2-4) and then the admonition to the saints not to be deceived by such (1 Tim. 4:6; 1 Jn. 4:5-6).

There are those on this forum who have been seduced and who are under the influence of demons and their doctrines manifest this to be the case. Of course, they are the ones on this forum who are combatting the plain and obvious sense of these texts.

This forum produces evidence of demons at work through those they have seduced and they are doing their utmost best to seduce others into embracing their lies and misinterpretations of these texts in order to provide shelter for demoninations these texts expose as products of demons.

 

[DHK]

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Please open another thread if you so desire.
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