glfredrick
New Member
In other threads, the topic of free will and God's sovereignty come up or end up in virtually every thread.
In most of those posts, I've seen a stereotype of Calvinism or preferably the Doctrines of Grace that even the proponents of the opposing view admit are not correct when pressed. For instance, in one thread where we were discussing evangelism and Calvinism, it was admitted that many Calvinists do not hold to the standard opposition view, i.e., that Calvinists (or Reformed, or those holding the Doctrines of Grace) are not evangelistic. When pressed to present people, churches, teachers, etc., who actually teach that hyper-Calvinistic model, nothing came forth.
Here, I'd like to introduce another aspect of the Doctrines of Grace -- literally, "grace." It is only by God's "grace" that we come to Him. He must extend that grace FIRST, whether Arminian or Calvinist, to see one saved. Pelagianism is another thing, and human-centered enough so as to be heretical, as is hyper-Calvinism, which features an absolutely deterministic God, cf., Allah.
Along those lines, I'd like to toss out the opening salvo around another common expression by non-Calvinists, "God will not drag someone to heaven kicking and screaming..." To which, by the way, we mostly all agree, no matter which side of this discussion we stand. So on the face of it, that phrase seems nothing more than a red herring or strawman argument anyway. But in any case, because it does come up often, I thought that I would offer some thoughts...
Here is a question that leads to my thesis statement, and this is especially directed toward those of the more Arminian perspective, even if you, like I with Calvinism, do not hold to that descriptor:
Do you pray for God to change the hearts of those in or around your ministry, family, community, and the world, who are in blatant sin, irreconcilable marriages, animosity toward God, etc."
If you DO pray for God to change the heart, then why? Can God indeed direct the thoughts, attitudes, direction, heart, soul, etc., of a person who stands against Him in sin or other rebellious attitude or action?
And, why can God do that for anything or anyone, except in the case of salvation, where the "kicking and screaming" line comes into play?
In most of those posts, I've seen a stereotype of Calvinism or preferably the Doctrines of Grace that even the proponents of the opposing view admit are not correct when pressed. For instance, in one thread where we were discussing evangelism and Calvinism, it was admitted that many Calvinists do not hold to the standard opposition view, i.e., that Calvinists (or Reformed, or those holding the Doctrines of Grace) are not evangelistic. When pressed to present people, churches, teachers, etc., who actually teach that hyper-Calvinistic model, nothing came forth.
Here, I'd like to introduce another aspect of the Doctrines of Grace -- literally, "grace." It is only by God's "grace" that we come to Him. He must extend that grace FIRST, whether Arminian or Calvinist, to see one saved. Pelagianism is another thing, and human-centered enough so as to be heretical, as is hyper-Calvinism, which features an absolutely deterministic God, cf., Allah.
Along those lines, I'd like to toss out the opening salvo around another common expression by non-Calvinists, "God will not drag someone to heaven kicking and screaming..." To which, by the way, we mostly all agree, no matter which side of this discussion we stand. So on the face of it, that phrase seems nothing more than a red herring or strawman argument anyway. But in any case, because it does come up often, I thought that I would offer some thoughts...
Here is a question that leads to my thesis statement, and this is especially directed toward those of the more Arminian perspective, even if you, like I with Calvinism, do not hold to that descriptor:
Do you pray for God to change the hearts of those in or around your ministry, family, community, and the world, who are in blatant sin, irreconcilable marriages, animosity toward God, etc."
If you DO pray for God to change the heart, then why? Can God indeed direct the thoughts, attitudes, direction, heart, soul, etc., of a person who stands against Him in sin or other rebellious attitude or action?
And, why can God do that for anything or anyone, except in the case of salvation, where the "kicking and screaming" line comes into play?
