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Does Acts 2:38 REALLy teach water baptism requiredto be saved?

Yeshua1

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As having on going discussion with one who does not see it as essential to being saved by God, but apromise that IF a sinner does as described there by peter, their sins will get remitted them?

My understanding is that per the greek yext, peter teaching that the baptism into Jesus is that HE is the One that saves and remits our sins, not the water, but what is right way to see this then?
 

Yeshua1

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Yes.

So do many other passages.

So you are now agreeing with the catholics/lutheryn and Church of Christ?

So the Gospel of saved by grace alone, thru faith alone no longer applies, so that would mean no longer a baptist than?
 
The water baptism is akin to the circumcision of the foreskin in the OT. It was a sign to those who failed to believe they were now serving God.

Now, to hold this to be an absolute to be saved and w/o being baptized in the water, I don't agree with. It isn't for the putting away the filth of the flesh, but to answer a good conscious to God.
 

JamesL

Well-Known Member
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As having on going discussion with one who does not see it as essential to being saved by God, but apromise that IF a sinner does as described there by peter, their sins will get remitted them?

My understanding is that per the greek yext, peter teaching that the baptism into Jesus is that HE is the One that saves and remits our sins, not the water, but what is right way to see this then?

On the Church of Christ and Baptism thread in Other Denominations forum, I posted this on page 1:

Consider who Peter was speaking to - Men of Judea and all who live in Jerusalem (2:14)and You that are Israelites (2:22). The ones "living in Jerusalem" would have been Israelites, just not permanently living there. Deuteronomy 16:2, 5-6 says
You shall offer the passover sacrifice to the Lord your God, from the flock and the herd, at the place that the Lord will choose as a dwelling for his name. You are not permitted to offer the passover sacrifice within any of your towns that the Lord your God is giving you. But at the place that the Lord your God will choose as a dwelling for his name, only there shall you offer the passover sacrifice, in the evening at sunset, the time of day when you departed from Egypt.

Mary and Joseph did this as well:
Luke 2:41
Now every year his parents went to Jerusalem for the festival of the Passover.


Then, regarding the feast of Weeks, or Pentecost, Deuteronomy 16:11 says
Rejoice before the Lord your God....at the place that the Lord your God will choose as a dwelling for his name.

Considering the long travel, many would stay the entire 7 weeks from Passover to Pentecost. This is why there were so many people there from other nations (Acts 2:8-11). These were not just Jews who wanted a vacation, these were devout Jews. What's so special about being called devout?

Eulabes - inner reverence. Used only 4 times in the NT, it seems to always signify someone who is in righteous standing with God. In other words, saved people.

In Luke 2:25-26, Simeon was described as "eulabes" and was waiting for the consolation of Israel. It was revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death until he had seen the Lord's Messiah.

In Acts 8:2, "eulabes" men buried Stephen and made loud lamentation over him after he was stoned to death. Stephen's enemies sure would not have lamented. It would have been his brothers in Christ who were deeply saddened

In Acts 22:12, Paul recounts how Ananias, a "eulabes" man, laid his hands on him to receive his sight after Paul (Saul) had become a believer.

It is this same "eulabes" which is used to describe the men who were gathered from all the nations in Acts 2. Verse 5 says
Now there were eulabes Jews from every nation under heaven living in Jerusalem.


These men, who were waiting for the consolation of Israel, would have been justified by faith before Jesus was crucified. In other words, they were already "saved"

They had been there to see Jesus ride into Jerusalem on a donkey. Matthew 21:8-9 says that a very large crowd spread their coats and went ahead of Him singing "Hosanna"

If you read John 12, you see a great mix of people in this crowd. Some who believed in Him and some who did not. Verses 17 and 18 describe two groups of people - those who were with him when He raised Lazarus from the dead had gone about testifying. A different crowd heard about it and went to see Jesus. The English isn't real clear that there were two different crowds, but that is the case.

Matthew 27:20 also testifies that there were multiple "crowds" that were stirred into asking for Barabbas to be released. These "devout" men from Acts 2 were part of the crowds that cried out "Crucify Him"

That is why Peter said to them in Acts 2:26
Therefore let the entire house of Israel know with certainty that God has made him both Lord and Messiah, this Jesus whom you crucified.

These men were most certainly pricked in their hearts, having taken part in the murder of their long-awaited Messiah. They knew better, but had allowed themselves to be deceived, and they went along with the crowd.

When Peter told them to be baptized for the remission of sins, this was not justification. It was a cleansing of the conscience (2Peter 3:21) and a restoration into fellowship with God. It was also a public association with Jesus and His followers, which would have brought persecution.

See in John 12:42 how some Pharisees believed in Jesus, but would not confess Him, for fear of being put out of the synagogue.

Only when they had received forgiveness for this atrocity would these devout men receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

It is always spoken of this event that "3,000 me were saved at Pentecost"

But nowhere does it say that these men were saved. Why is that? They already were saved before they came that day. Justified by faith in God, just like Abraham was (Romans 4:21-25)

What is actually said of these men, in Acts 2:41, is that
those who welcomed his message were baptized, and that day about three thousand persons were added.

Added to what? Added to the group of believing Jews who had recognized Jesus as their Messiah

Acts chapter 2 gives no evidence whatsoever that anyone was "saved" because they got baptized. It confirms that 3,000 pre-cross believers came to realize that they were accessories to the murder of the Messiah. But by being baptized as a public confession of their faith in Him, they were restored to fellowship with God and received the promised Holy Spirit


I think that is the most plausible explanation of what happened in Acts 2
 

preacher4truth

Active Member
They were instructed to be baptized for the forgiveness of sins, or because as believers, regenerated by God they were forgiven, and since forgiven, they should follow in obedience to be baptized. This baptism had no cause in salvation whatsoever, but those who were baptized evidenced that they were the Lord's and were forgiven their sins.

I've known persons in churches who refused to be baptized, claimed to be believers, but would not take that step of obedience as if it were optional. Note John 10 and especially verse 27. They are disobedient to Christ, and the fact they refused baptism seems to indicate they were and are not actually forgiven.

But in churches today many are taught their many options within Christianity, to be obedient, or to not be obedient, to be a believer, or, to be a disciple. This is nothing short of pulling into Burger King and 'having it your way'.

Wonder how many are deceived into hell in this fashion? 'I'll have the belief without obedience, with a side order of absolutely no change of heart or lifestyle, with a 'don't judge me' shake on the side, thank you'.
 

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
So you are now agreeing with the catholics/lutheryn and Church of Christ?

So the Gospel of saved by grace alone, thru faith alone no longer applies, so that would mean no longer a baptist than?

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned. Mk 16:16

which also after a true likeness doth now save you, even baptism, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the interrogation of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ; 1 Pet 3:21

The connection between baptism and being saved is undeniable.
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned. Mk 16:16

which also after a true likeness doth now save you, even baptism, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the interrogation of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ; 1 Pet 3:21

The connection between baptism and being saved is undeniable.

Except that the NT examoples are ALWAYS water baptism done AFTER person received Jesus thru faith, and were already saved now!
 
which also after a true likeness doth now save you, even baptism, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the interrogation of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ; 1 Pet 3:21
Which means getting wet doesn't do squat, but being baptized in the Holy Spirit -- faith, and faith alone -- saves.
 

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
38 And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
40 And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation.

You get all worked up over baptism being connected with saved, what about 'save yourselves'? Doesn't that get your drawers in a twist too?
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
38 And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
40 And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation.

You get all worked up over baptism being connected with saved, what about 'save yourselves'? Doesn't that get your drawers in a twist too?

You are not saying the water itself remits your sins, makes you saved, and cleanses all our sins, are you?
 

ktn4eg

New Member
40 And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation.

You get all worked up over baptism being connected with saved, what about 'save yourselves'? QUOTE]

____________________________________________________________________________

The expression, "Save yourselves from this untoward [as per the KJV] generation" really has nothing at all to do with one's spiritual salvation.

This part of Peter's great sermon on Pentecost merely sets forth a warning to his listeners that they need to be aware that if one elects to identify him/herself with Jesus Christ, he/she can expect to suffer loss in the form of persecution--perhaps even the loss of one's life.

While we ought to obey the secular authorities when they act in a legitimate manner in the areas in which God's Word permits them to do so (see, for example, Paul's writings in Romans 13), when it comes to doing those things that God commands His people to do (such as preaching and/or testifying the truths found in God's Word), such as Acts 5:29b clearly states -- "....We ought to obey God rather than men"-- then we must take our stand, no matter what the cost may involve, with what God's Word commands us to do.

Persecution always has been, and always will be, the mark of a people who've "counted the cost" and have made a definite and purposed decision to stand for the vital truths that we find in God's Word.
 

jbh28

Active Member
As having on going discussion with one who does not see it as essential to being saved by God, but apromise that IF a sinner does as described there by peter, their sins will get remitted them?

My understanding is that per the greek yext, peter teaching that the baptism into Jesus is that HE is the One that saves and remits our sins, not the water, but what is right way to see this then?

And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38 ESV

The correct interpretation of this passage rests in what the word "for" means. "For" can mean, "in order to receive," resulting in a yes to your question. It can also mean "on the basis of," resulting in a no to your question.


“Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” (Acts 10:47, ESV)

Here you have people who have received the Holy Spirit(thus are saved) and then Peter baptizes them.

So Peter cannot mean in Acts 2 that one has to be water baptized in order to be saved. You are then left with the meaning of "on the basis of."
 

Tom Butler

New Member
In Acts 8,Philip meets the Ethiopian eunuch and explains the Old Testament scriptures regarding the Messiah.
The eunuch points out some water and said, "okay, what prevents me from being baptized?"
Paul told him, "you can if you believe in your heart that Jesus rose from the dead."
The eunuch replied, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."
Then--and only then--did Philip baptize him.

Then is Romans 10:9 Confess with the mouth, and believe in Jesus' resurrection.
And Romans 10:13 Whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

No baptism.
 

TCassidy

Late-Administator Emeritus
Administrator
The problem is that the so-called "Church of Christ" and other baptismal regenerationists don't under stand rather simple English.

1. I got a ticket for speeding. (Which came first, the ticket or the speeding?)
2. I got a medal for bravery. (Which came first, the medal or the bravery?)
3. I got baptized for the remission of sin. (Which came first, the baptism or the remission of sin?)

Bonus:

I went to the store for my wife. Did I go to the store to get my wife or did I go to the store because of my wife asked me to?

Very simple 4th grade level English.
 
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