Does "all" mean "all"?

[Helen]

no one is exempt from believing, but only those who God enables to beilieve will come.

Don't you recognize that as the double talk it is?

If one can only believe because God enables that belief then all those He has not enabled are therefore 'exempt' from believing.

The truth is, every person is able to believe if they so choose. That is the clear and distinct message of the Bible.

 

[massdak]

Originally posted by Helen:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />no one is exempt from believing, but only those who God enables to beilieve will come.

Don't you recognize that as the double talk it is?

If one can only believe because God enables that belief then all those He has not enabled are therefore 'exempt' from believing.

The truth is, every person is able to believe if they so choose. That is the clear and distinct message of the Bible. </font>[/QUOTE]helen trying to reconcile any paradox could sound like double talk. do you believe that without any help from God to show you Christ, that you could believe? why do you suppose these disiples decided not to follow Jesus anymore&gt;&gt;&gt;

Jhn 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Jhn 6:66 From that [time] many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

 

[Helen]

Let's back up in chapter six, OK?

Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?"

Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

All through the New Testament, the command is there, the request, the pleading, "Believe!"

So yes, biblically a man or woman can believe first. This is why we preach the Gospel, so people can choose to believe or not. Those who choose to believe the Good News will be drawn to Christ by the Father. And none will be turned away.

You can't base a theology on a few verses out of context! For instance, the verses dealing with 'predestination' all have to do with the fact that those who are believers are predestined to be completely transformed. There is nothing which says that it has been predestined who the believers will be! This becomes quite clear when the entire New Testament (preferably the whole Bible!) is read.

You can play verse for verse game and argue about anything, with the Bible being used on both sides. But the MESSAGE of the Bible is "Come to me...believe!" That message is for all men everywhere, and God is not a mocker of men, issuing invitations to those who have no way of responding. He is a gracious God of love, who satisfied justice through His Son, thus opening the way for all men everywhere from every time to respond to Him in submission and belief.

His sovereignty is big enough for all men, not just a few. It is big enough to offer choices, not just create robots.

 

[Yelsew]

WELL DONE HELEN!

 

[ILUVLIGHT]

Hi Hellen;
Praise God for your information. "All" does mean "All"
May God Bless
ILUVLIGHT

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by Helen:
Let's back up in chapter six, OK?

Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?"

Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

All through the New Testament, the command is there, the request, the pleading, "Believe!"

So yes, biblically a man or woman can believe first.

Can you explain how you make this conclusion?? YOu quote a couple of verses (out of context ) and then conclude "so yes" (implying that you are conluding based on what you have just said). So how do these verses teach that man can believe first??? These verses do not even discuss the work of God on the individual, much less give an order or cause. Please help us understand your thought process.

Those who choose to believe the Good News will be drawn to Christ by the Father.

Please explain this from the text. The relevant verses in this passages are 6:44 where drawing precedes coming and 6:65 where granting by the Father precedes coming. Let us ask the additional questioning, what is the relationship between "coming" and "believing"? According to v. 35, they are used in parallel, meaning that "come" and "believe" mean the same thing.

So putting this whole passage together (without skipping over those inconvenient parts), we see that the people are asking how to please God (What do we do to do the works of God?). Jesus says, "Believe on me, come to me." Jesus continues, "If you come you will not be cast out but you will be raised at the last day" (vv. 37-40). Jesus continues, "No one can come (believe) unless the FAther draws him, and those who whom the Father draws will be raised up at the last day" (v. 44). This means that the drawing is effectual since it results in resurrection at the last day.

And none will be turned away.

We can agree on that.

You can't base a theology on a few verses out of context!

And this is why we must reject your position. The Scripture as a whole does not teach what you are saying. I don't say that to be inflammatory in the least, please understand. But in the simple exercise above, I have shown that come and believe are two words for the same thing (and this can be shown from numerous passages in Scripture, not just here). I have shown that Christ explicitly says the drawing or granting of the Father precedes the coming or believing. How can you read the text and say anything else.

The best attempt to avoid what seems explicit is to argue as some have done that Christ was referring only to the Jews, not to humankind as a whole. But that argument runs into the rest of Scripture and has serious issues.

For instance, the verses dealing with 'predestination' all have to do with the fact that those who are believers are predestined to be completely transformed. There is nothing which says that it has been predestined who the believers will be!

Actually, not all. Romans 8:30 places predestination before the call, the justification, and the glorification. Therefore it is clear that God predestined the unsaved to be transformed into the image of Christ.

Addtionally, you have the issue of election or choosing, which contemplates God's choice of people who are not yet saved, but chosen to be saved. Nowhere in SCripture is election made the result of belief. Whenever the two appear together, election always precedes belief. And we could go on giving examples.

The bottom line, as you say, is that we must consider all of Scritpure, not just some of it, and we cannot approach Scripture trying to make our points from it. We must let Scripture say what it does.

But the MESSAGE of the Bible is "Come to me...believe!"

We agree.

That message is for all men everywhere, and God is not a mocker of men, issuing invitations to those who have no way of responding.

That doesn't make God a mocker. Those people are unable to respond because of their sinfulness. They can't blame that on God. You still don't seem to get that point, though we have repeated it many times. God is not keeping these people from responding. He is not rejecting them. They are rejecting him. They can come at anytime they so desire. They simply do not want to come to him. Their own inability is their own fault, not God's.

His sovereignty is big enough for all men, not just a few. It is big enough to offer choices, not just create robots.

But it is sovereignty. It is not reactive.

 

[Pete]

I remember just before or just after I joined the BB, I was looking through this forum and saw a quote along the lines of "Arminianism leads to universalism." I can see how taking pas as meaning an absolute "ALL" at every occurrence listed above would quickly have that effect. No matter what else I may believe, universalism will never be on the list. I believe it is an insult to God's Holiness.

Back to the topic at hand, I guess it boils down to "all" being yet another one of those words that each group will take it's own way.

 

[Me2]

Hi Yelsew,

No man is exempted from atonement! All men for ALL times are covered by the power of the atonement. So it does not matter what man believes about atonement, it is a God performed act that restores to man the ability to have everlasting life and no man is exempted.

heres something interesting to think on.

when are our sins atoned for?.

if we must become placed into death with Christ (by faith)...

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

and the laws design is to uncover sin that is within us. which produced fruit of/unto death

Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

but if we are baptised into christ death (by faith) signifying our own death of our own carnal flesh spirit. in which the law of God is against the unrighteousness of the carnal flesh spirit.

Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not [in] the oldness of the letter.

then we still contain sin and an old carnal spirit within us until we become baptised into the death of Christ. so does this make sense that we are atoned for sin IN DEATH?.


in other words. we must first enter into death ourselves. with our sins. (via the law destroying the works of our flesh)

there we meet jesus and his righteousness and it is there that we receive the exchange of our new spirit..

how is our sins are atoned for? it is not that our old spirit is cleaned of sin. but that we leave our carnal spirit with its sin in death. and we are placed in christ. if we believe that christ rose from the dead and we have arrived in death.

it becomes the sole work of God the father to place us "in Christ" before he is resurrected from death.

Me2

 

[Yelsew]

Me2, I apologize for the length of my reply, but it seems necessary.

Hi Yelsew, </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />No man is exempted from atonement! All men for ALL times are covered by the power of the atonement. So it does not matter what man believes about atonement, it is a God performed act that restores to man the ability to have everlasting life and no man is exempted.

heres something interesting to think on.

when are our sins atoned for?.</font>[/QUOTE]The problem with your question Me2, is that you do not believe the bible when It says that Jesus Atoned ONCE, FOR ALL the sins of the world. So when does atonement occur for our sins? It happened 2000 years ago with the one known as Emmanuel, God with us. You keep wanting to put Jesus back on the cross to atone for sins!

if we must become placed into death with Christ (by faith)...
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

and the laws design is to uncover sin that is within us. which produced fruit of/unto death

Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

What you fail to understand is this:

Sin that is atoned for is not held to the account of the one committing the Sin! Jesus atoned for the Sins of the World, that is, ALL SINS for ALL TIMES. The result is that NO MAN DIES BECAUSE OF SIN! Even those who do not believe do not face death because of sins they've committed. Jesus removed sin from the SALVATION EQUATION! Thus the equation is no longer "Repentance and belief = Salvation". Since sins are not held to the account of the sinner, and we all sin, the equation is now: "Faith in God = Salvation".

Does that mean that we can abound in Sin, becoming the most vile of people? ABSOLUTELY NOT! Because, sins committed without fear have the effect of eroding faith. If continued unabated, sins will displace faith. FAITH retained, relies on being in daily communication with the Father in Heaven, Sins break that communication, but they do not cause the death of man! Jesus paid for our sins.

but if we are baptised into christ death (by faith) signifying our own death of our own carnal flesh spirit. in which the law of God is against the unrighteousness of the carnal flesh spirit.

Entering into death symbolically, is not the same as dying the Death that Jesus suffered to pay for our sins. They cannot be compared. Symbolic death (baptism) is the sign that we give that we will follow Jesus, even into death, It does not mean that we actually die for our sins.

Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not [in] the oldness of the letter.

then we still contain sin and an old carnal spirit within us until we become baptised into the death of Christ. so does this make sense that we are atoned for sin IN DEATH?.

It absolutely does, Me2! There is no power in water baptism to remove or change our human essence or nature, you see it is a symbol of our spiritual intent! The power for human change resides in our human spiritual resolve! The human spirit can serve only one master, that is why we must "die" to self and "Live" for Jesus. We cannot live for self and Jesus simultaneously. Baptism is the symbol of our decision of whom we will serve, and has nothing to do with cleansing us from sin! The cleansing of Sin comes from Confession of sin and the promised forgiveness one who confesses receives. It is the forgiveness that cleanses us from All unrighteousness. But alas, we continue to sin, so we must continue to confess our sins in order to be cleansed over and over and over. It is the sins we don't confess that erode our faith! If our faith erodes far enough, we will be found with no faith, and thus no salvation.

in other words. we must first enter into death ourselves. with our sins. (via the law destroying the works of our flesh)

there we meet jesus and his righteousness and it is there that we receive the exchange of our new spirit.

I know that you believe what you say, but you are completely ignoring that truth that it is our human spirit that Jesus came to seek and to save. He told us the flesh has nothing to offer, but the spirit is the life of the flesh. How then can it be that the only spirit each man ever has, gets replaced? It does not! It gets "reborn". Reborn meaning the same spirit which was born once, is born again! Meaning that the human spirit is transformed from sinner to saint, and not replaced by the spirit of Jesus.

how is our sins are atoned for? it is not that our old spirit is cleaned of sin. but that we leave our carnal spirit with its sin in death. and we are placed in christ. if we believe that christ rose from the dead and we have arrived in death.

it becomes the sole work of God the father to place us "in Christ" before he is resurrected from death.

We become "in Christ" when we immerse ourselves into the essence of the Christ, in the same manner that one becomes an American by becoming immersed in the principles of Americanism. AND, It is the intent of the human spirit, based upon the Holy Word of God "heard in the spirit" that determines whether or not we are "in Christ".

As for "how is our sins are atoned for?" Our "old spirit" has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ATONEMENT FOR SINS! Atonement for sins is an ACT OF GOD on man's behalf. Man has nothing to do with whether or not their sins are atoned for, it is beyond their power, and mankind need not even believe that their sins are atoned for. THEY ALREADY HAVE BEEN! You need not fear death because of sin, unless the consequence of the sin you commit results in death of the natural human body before the human spirit can come to faith in God. The second death of Revelation 20:15 is based solely upon the faith condition of the human spirit, those having faith in God, especially in God the Son, are not judged! Those lacking such faith are judged and cast into the lake of fire, the second death.

 

[Me2]

Yelsew,

Im sorry that your definition of atonement to my understanding is vague.

we seem to get the wrong impression from the garden. Adam sins. God provides a sacrifice. sin is transferred. adam lives to see another day through adams eyes.

atonement on the OT means that one sacrifice is necesary for all peoples. sin is transferred into the sacrifice and the sacrifice then represented all transgressions. all transgressions is delivered into death.

yet in the NT system of atonement. the sacrifice is killed WITHOUT sin. the next step is that all transgressors also MUST die and within death, the soul of the transgressor is placed within the sacrifice and resurrected from death.

its backwards from the OT system.

now for the all part.

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

doesnt this scripture DEMAND everyone entering into death, yet all being resurrected into life or being placed "in christ"?

and try to keep in mind. I do not speak of Physical life and death. I speak of spiritual life and death.


Me2

 

[Yelsew]

Im sorry that your definition of atonement to my understanding is vague.

we seem to get the wrong impression from the garden. Adam sins. God provides a sacrifice. sin is transferred. adam lives to see another day through adams eyes.

atonement on the OT means that one sacrifice is necesary for all peoples. sin is transferred into the sacrifice and the sacrifice then represented all transgressions. all transgressions is delivered into death.

Remember, Me2, what you read in the Old Testament is a ceremony of symbols depicting a spiritual reality. A "spotless" animal was slain as a substitute for the people of transgression. What happened to those people who sinned? That's right, they are set free from the penalty of their sins, they had their sins atoned for?

yet in the NT system of atonement. the sacrifice is killed WITHOUT sin. the next step is that all transgressors also MUST die and within death, the soul of the transgressor is placed within the sacrifice and resurrected from death.

"Killed without sin"? Could that mean the sacrificial was a SPOTLESS Human being, one who had never sinned? Don't you understand that is exactly what happened in the Old Testament Atonement, a SPOTLESS Sacrifice dying a substitutionary death in place of ALL the transgressors, thus setting ALL the transgressors free from the penalty of death.

So you see, dear Me2, it is the same for both the old and New Testaments. Atonement frees the sinner from the penalty of Sin which is death. There is no death for sin anymore, because Jesus died for our sins in a ONCE, for ALL, Atonement for sin. We have been set free from the penalty of sin which came upon us through Adam. So it was by one man, Adam, that sin entered the world, and with sin came the penalty of death. But with Jesus' ONCE, for ALL-Atonement, the penalty for sin has been removed and man can be brought to life everlasting through man's faith in Jesus Christ! And NO, I am not speaking of physical death either, but rather spiritual death, the Second death of Revelation 20:15. The Atonement is not what saves man, because everlasting life is for those who believe in God, especially in the Son of God, Jesus.

its backwards from the OT system.

NO, Me2, it is exactly the same in Both Testaments, with the only difference being that in the New Testament it is not an oft-repeated ceremony, but a ONCE for ALL SINS, ONCE for ALL TIMES, Atonement.

now for the all part.

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

doesnt this scripture DEMAND everyone entering into death, yet all being resurrected into life or being placed "in christ"?

and try to keep in mind. I do not speak of Physical life and death. I speak of spiritual life and death.

Let's see now, a little context is helpful.

1 Cor 15:20. In fact, however, Christ has been raised from the dead, as the first-fruits of all who have fallen asleep. (Christ is the first to be resurrected from the dead)
21. As it was by one man that death came, (through one man, Adam, death came to mankind) so through one man has come the resurrection of the dead.(Through Jesus, there is life because he was raised from and victorious over death, having atoned for the sins of the world)
22. Just as all die in Adam, so in Christ all will be brought to life; (what did Jesus say brings everlasting life? Believing in Him! Therefore only those who do believe in Jesus will be brought to life. That number is not equal to nor greater than ALL that die in Adam. So fewer than all that die in Adam are brought to life in Jesus Christ, because life is the result of belief, and not all will believe)
23. but all of them in their proper order: Christ the first-fruits, and next, at his coming, those who belong to him.
24. After that will come the end, when he will hand over the kingdom to God the Father, having abolished every principality, every ruling force and power.
25. For he is to be king until he has made his enemies his footstool,
26. and the last of the enemies to be done away with is death, for he has put all things under his feet.(The last enemy, Death, is what is described in Revelation 20:15. It is where all unbelievers, those whose names are not found in the book of life are cast and it is called the second death. After the judgment of evil, evil agents, and unbelievers, this heaven and earth shall pass away to be replaced by a New Heaven and New Earth, and God will bring his Holy City, the New Jerusalem to the New Earth to live among men forever. The lake of fire is part of this heaven and earth and it too will pass away with all its contents.)
27. But when it is said everything is subjected, this obviously cannot include the One who subjected everything to him.
28. When everything has been subjected to him, then the Son himself will be subjected to the One who has subjected everything to him, so that God may be all in all.

Romans 3:21. God's saving justice was witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, but now it has been revealed altogether apart from law:
22. God's saving justice given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.
23. No distinction is made: all have sinned and lack God's glory,
24. and all are justified by the free gift of his grace through being set free in Christ Jesus.
25. God appointed him as a sacrifice for reconciliation, through faith, by the shedding of his blood, and so showed his justness; first for the past, when sins went unpunished because he held his hand;
26. and now again for the present age, to show how he is just and justifies everyone who has faith in Jesus.

The free gift of his Grace, is Jesus Christ. Jesus died to make men free from the penalty of Death, so that being free from the penalty of death, man is now able to have life everlasting through faith in Jesus Christ. "In Jesus Christ" does not mean that we are actually taken into the person of Jesus Christ, any more than any of us are "in Adam". But we are subject to death brought to us "in living color" through ADAM. We are taken into what Jesus Christ represents in the same manner that we were born into what Adam represents. We become Christian in the same manner that a person becomes an American. We hear the truths and believe them, making them part of our own self, as we do this we take on the "mantle" of that which we believe. In other words, we be become what we believe, we act out what we believe. In so doing as Christians, we find favor in the eyes of the Lord.

 

[Me2]

Yelsew,

did you ever figure what Jesus meant when he said these statements.....

Mat 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Luk 14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.


where would you think one would end up if one were to be crusified and die...thats right. into death.

Jesus is asking his followers to deliver their carnal spirit into death.

(of course the true method to deliver oneself into death is to be taught of Gods law which purpose is to kill our self-willed spirit.)

all three statements denote picking up ones method of death. to be Jesus disciple. one must die to their self willed carnal spirit.

which means total abdication of controlling ones existence or destiny.

 

[Yelsew]

Me2,

where would you think one would end up if one were to be crusified and die...thats right. into death.

Jesus is asking his followers to deliver their carnal spirit into death.

(of course the true method to deliver oneself into death is to be taught of Gods law which purpose is to kill our self-willed spirit.)

all three statements denote picking up ones method of death. to be Jesus disciple. one must die to their self willed carnal spirit.

which means total abdication of controlling ones existence or destiny.

I have no problem with that Me2, but the truth is, the human spirit does not die, but rather has a changed persuasion. What I did believe is now dead, what I believe now lives. I once was lost in sin, but now I am washed clean and by believing in Jesus I have killed the desire to sin that was in me. I did not kill me! I killed my desire to sin! I live therefore in accordance with my new persuasion. I take up my cross and follow Jesus, I deny myself in taking up my cross and following Jesus. In doing so I did not die, but my desires have changed from sin to righteousness. My spirit still lives, the same spirit that my flesh had when it was born, but it's persuasion is different because I believe different things than I did when sin ruled my life. I believe in Jesus the Christ, therefore "I am in Christ". Jesus promised that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. I believe, therefore I live!

 

[massdak]

Originally posted by Helen:
I am not abandoning the moral accountability thread and will respond after dinner (as I type this it is about 5:30 here on the West Coast-- edit: well, it started out that way!), but something has been rolling around in my mind that was said on that thread and I want to ask about it here, because I think it deserves attention of its own.

Pastor Larry wrote (near the bottom of the second page of that thread) "As for Helen's question, as a general rule, yes Calvinists tend to believe that. We base it on, among other things, the truth of Eph 1:11 that God is working (action verb, not a reaction verb) all thing (how much can you leave out and still have all things) after the counsel of his own will (not someone else's)."

He had other words bolded, but the ones I have bolded here are the ones I want to concentrate on.

He made a particular point of emphasizing that 'all' meanst 'all'.

Here are some other places where 'all' is used. Does it still mean 'all'?

Matt. 11:28 Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest


1 Peter 3:18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God.

Hebrews 9:12 He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption.

Hebrews 7:27 Unlike other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.


1 Timothy 2:3-6 This is good and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to all knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men -- the testimony given in its proper time.


Does 'all' still mean 'all'?

helen i found this to be interesting that Jesus said this&gt;&gt;Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

the word all in some cases you must admit does not mean every creature and the word world in the bible doesnt either. can you please admit to that with a simple yes or no ? nothing else added

 

[Helen]

Sorry, massdak, but Mark 16:15 was not even in the early texts and appears to have been added somewhat later. But let's look at it anyway.

But if you look at that word 'creature' in the Greek, there is something else that should be seen. In the Greek it is ktisma, from the root ktidso, and refers to an original creation or created thing. It doesn't even require the thing be living! This is why the NIV translates it as "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation."

In both the NIV and KJV and, I would suspect, other translations as well, this verse is followed immediately by 16 which starts with either "Whosoever" or "he", depending on the translator's choices. This clearly narrows the meaning of verse 15 to human beings -- all those created throughout the world, in terms of 15.

You really need to quit scrapping for the sake of scrapping and study your Bible seriously, with a few Concordances and prayers for wisdom.

God bless.

 

[massdak]

Originally posted by Helen:
Sorry, massdak, but Mark 16:15 was not even in the early texts and appears to have been added somewhat later. But let's look at it anyway.

But if you look at that word 'creature' in the Greek, there is something else that should be seen. In the Greek it is ktisma, from the root ktidso, and refers to an original creation or created thing. It doesn't even require the thing be living! This is why the NIV translates it as "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation."

In both the NIV and KJV and, I would suspect, other translations as well, this verse is followed immediately by 16 which starts with either "Whosoever" or "he", depending on the translator's choices. This clearly narrows the meaning of verse 15 to human beings -- all those created throughout the world, in terms of 15.

You really need to quit scrapping for the sake of scrapping and study your Bible seriously, with a few Concordances and prayers for wisdom.

God bless.

ouch

 

[Yelsew]

Massdak,

helen i found this to be interesting that Jesus said this&gt;&gt;Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

the word all in some cases you must admit does not mean every creature and the word world in the bible doesn't either. can you please admit to that with a simple yes or no ? nothing else added

Well, I'm not Helen, but You are quite wrong about limiting "ALL" in any of the cases cited. For example, "World". World is an ALL inclusive term, it means "everywhere on the surface of the world". Surface implies that no man lived under the surface, and caves or caverns are surface depressions. It also implies that man does not live in the air above the surface, even birds live on the surface of the world, though they can fly above, they must land at some point for nourishment and rest. If there is anything to be questioned, it should be the "every creature" part. Who or what is included in "every creature"?

Looks like I am late in posting, running slow this morning.

Another Well done Helen!

 

[Ransom]

Yelsew:

For example, "World". World is an ALL inclusive term, it means "everywhere on the surface of the world".

Does it?

And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed. (Luke 2:1)

Did Caesar send out his decree to the Japanese and the Eskimos and the Aborignes demanding taxes from them? Or is "all the world" actually "the Roman empire, over which Caesar ruled"?

 

[Yelsew]

Originally posted by Ransom:
Yelsew:

For example, "World". World is an ALL inclusive term, it means "everywhere on the surface of the world".

Does it?

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed. (Luke 2:1)

Did Caesar send out his decree to the Japanese and the Eskimos and the Aborignes demanding taxes from them? Or is "all the world" actually "the Roman empire, over which Caesar ruled"? </font>[/QUOTE]I got my notice in Yokota, where did you get yours?

Are you trying to say that God never indended that the whole of his creation should not get the Gospel?

 

[Ransom]

Yelsew said:

Are you trying to say that God never indended that the whole of his creation should not get the Gospel?

What does that have to do with Luke 2:1?