Lodic
Well-Known Member
Sure, anyone can perform good deeds. That's not the issue. Without placing your faith in Jesus, you cannot enter Heaven.
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Does anyone actually believe Jack Chick's theology?
- Thread starter Humble Disciple
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Humble Disciple
Active Member
I agree. That doesn't change the fact that Chick frequently quoted verses out of context related to the necessity of good works:
Lodic
Well-Known Member
I haven't read enough of his tracts to determine whether or not he frequently quoted verses out of context. However, I don't believe he quoted anything out of context in the tract with the missionaries who depended on their good works to earn their way into Heaven. [EDIT] The tract does not minimize the importance of good works. It just shows that good works alone are not enough.
What evidence can you provide that Chick is a false prophet?
Humble Disciple
Active Member
I didn't say that he was a false prophet. He wasn't any kind of prophet at all. He was a failed comic book artist who instead made a living selling tracts that fear mongered and twisted scripture to suit his agenda.
Rom 4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
Rom 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
MB
Mike McKinney
Member
So do you, apparently.
As a missionary in Japan for 33 years and a missiology prof, I must disagree. There are many cases of liberal missionaries in many fields who did not believe in Hell and the salvation of the soul, and thus did not try to win souls to Christ. Great denominational battles took place in both the Northern Baptists and Southern Baptists to get liberal missionaries off the field during the first half of the 20th century.
Very recently in church history the SBC finally required their missionaries to sign the Baptist Faith and Mission, and many liberals had to resign rather than sign. In fact, I went to Japanese language with a couple of them back in the day, a man and his wife who both refused to sign, and resigned.
E. Stanley Jones (1884-1973) was a very famous liberal missionary who went to India in 1907 and was there until he died. But he wasn't there to win souls. Instead, he completely contextualized Christianity to the point of heresy, starting so-called "Christian ashrams" rather than churches.
This certainly does not apply to liberal missionaries, many of whom do not even believe in the deity of Christ.
This exactly describes liberal missionaries, wolves in sheep's clothing who do not see souls saved, but rather try to spread their vision of postmillennial liberal Christianity and a social gospel. There have been many such in Japan where I labored. The seminary in Japan started by the Southern Baptists is quite liberal now, as are the missionary profs there. There was a Japanese pastor in my town in Japan who graduated from there. He preached that there was no such thing as Hell, thus salvation from Hell was an out of date doctrine, no longer needed.
Humble Disciple
Active Member
Hebrews 12:14
Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 3:13
so that he may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all his saints.
Romans 6:22
But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life.
Galatians 5:6
For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but faith which worketh by love.
Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Ephesians 5:5
For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
You still haven't answered the fact that Chick demonstrably twisted scripture to suit his own theology and agenda:
Here is what one reference book says about liberal missionary E. Stanley Jones:
"During his missionary career, Jones; view of evangelism evolved from the individualistic-conversion emphasis of his Wesleyan-Holiness heritage to a blend of individual conversion and the redemption of social, economic, and political structures" (Donald R. Dunavant, "Eli Stanley Jones," in Evangelical Dictionary of World Missions, ed. by A. Scott Moreau, p. 524). The entry also calls Jones a "protoliberationist," meaning that he would have agreed with the awful missiology called liberation theology, which opposes Bible Christianity and winning folks to Jesus.
Thus, Jones and his wife could have been exactly the "missionary couple" in Chick's tract.
"During his missionary career, Jones; view of evangelism evolved from the individualistic-conversion emphasis of his Wesleyan-Holiness heritage to a blend of individual conversion and the redemption of social, economic, and political structures" (Donald R. Dunavant, "Eli Stanley Jones," in Evangelical Dictionary of World Missions, ed. by A. Scott Moreau, p. 524). The entry also calls Jones a "protoliberationist," meaning that he would have agreed with the awful missiology called liberation theology, which opposes Bible Christianity and winning folks to Jesus.
Thus, Jones and his wife could have been exactly the "missionary couple" in Chick's tract.
Cab you show me an example?
MB
Lodic
Well-Known Member
My mistake. Since you quoted the "false prophet" passage a few times, I thought you were saying that Chick was a type of a false prophet. Anyway, I agree that faith without works is dead (James 2:14-26). However, that is not to say that works are required for a Believer to go to Heaven. Consider the Penitent Thief, who was assured of joining Jesus in Paradise. What about other "deathbed" confessions?
The ones whom Jesus "never knew" were those who never trusted Him as their Lord.
Finally, to repeat a point I made earlier, Chick's tract did not make light of missionary work or of doing good works. What is your point in bringing up this thread?
I'm not against good works it's just that they do not save. You must be a Catholic because you're really pushing works for Salvation Think about the thief on the cross next to Jesus. What works did he do?.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
MB
I know I read his profile He does say that. A Baptist that defends Catholic doctrine. I admit I could have used better words.
MB
he was fervent into the cult of KJVO, but his salvation was right!
Humble Disciple
Active Member
Throughout his writings, Paul distinguished between the works of the Jewish law, which of themselves cannot save, and the works of love which serve as evidence of genuine saving faith. Paul was not an antinomian, no matter what our hyper-dispensationalist brothers and sisters might say.
He was not into Finney either though!
I am not aware of any teaching by hyper-dispensationalists or any other kind of dispensationalist who believes Paul was an antinomian. Can you source this?
"Humble Disciple" has not answered nor even mentioned my posts saying that the "missionaries" in Jack Chick's tract could have very well be unsaved liberals. So I'll post a little more on that. 
In the 19th century, the Southern Baptists had the famous controversy over Crawford Toy. Having been appointed to be a missionary to Japan, he elected to continue his education before going, and studied in Germany. There he learned liberal theology, and gradually became more liberal until he had abandoned the faith. Meanwhile, he was engaged to young Lottie Moon who was also dedicated to becoming a missionary. Seeing his liberalism, she broke off the engagement and became a famous SBC missionary as a single woman. My point is simply that early on there were liberals among Baptists, and that infected the cause of world missions. The story is told here: Making a Heretic: One Professor's Tragic Path from Star Student to False Teacher
The Northern Baptists (now called American Baptists) in the first half of the 20th century were pretty much taken over by liberals in their institutions: seminaries and mission boards. Many liberal missionaries were appointed, and any one of them could have been on Jack Chick's airplane. For example, "On May 25, 1920, the Foreign Society met in Boston and appointed Cecil G. Fielder as a missionary" (Fred Moritz, Now is the Time, p. 8). This man (not the baseball player) was a bonified liberal, and his appointment caused a great stink among the conservatives still in the Northern Baptist Convention.
In the 19th century, the Southern Baptists had the famous controversy over Crawford Toy. Having been appointed to be a missionary to Japan, he elected to continue his education before going, and studied in Germany. There he learned liberal theology, and gradually became more liberal until he had abandoned the faith. Meanwhile, he was engaged to young Lottie Moon who was also dedicated to becoming a missionary. Seeing his liberalism, she broke off the engagement and became a famous SBC missionary as a single woman. My point is simply that early on there were liberals among Baptists, and that infected the cause of world missions. The story is told here: Making a Heretic: One Professor's Tragic Path from Star Student to False Teacher
The Northern Baptists (now called American Baptists) in the first half of the 20th century were pretty much taken over by liberals in their institutions: seminaries and mission boards. Many liberal missionaries were appointed, and any one of them could have been on Jack Chick's airplane. For example, "On May 25, 1920, the Foreign Society met in Boston and appointed Cecil G. Fielder as a missionary" (Fred Moritz, Now is the Time, p. 8). This man (not the baseball player) was a bonified liberal, and his appointment caused a great stink among the conservatives still in the Northern Baptist Convention.
William Axling was a liberal missionary to Japan under the Northern Baptist board. After 33 years in Japan (just how long we were there--JoJ), he wrote, "I went to Japan...with the conception that the ethnic faiths were all false...but my experience during the years has convinced me that Buddhism, and Shinto as well as Confucianism furnish...spiritual light for the orientals" (quoted in David Cummins, A Brief History of Baptist Missions, pp. 37-38)
That is flat out heresy. I know those religions extremely well, and have even lectured on them. (Confucianism was originally a philosophy, but some worship the man.) They have not one iota of information in them that can lead a person to the true God. William Axling and his wife could have been the missionaries on Chick's airplane.
That is flat out heresy. I know those religions extremely well, and have even lectured on them. (Confucianism was originally a philosophy, but some worship the man.) They have not one iota of information in them that can lead a person to the true God. William Axling and his wife could have been the missionaries on Chick's airplane.
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