So no murderers were ever saved by grace of god, as that act was unpardonable sin?
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Does ANYONE here Hold that God predestined "batman killer?"
- Thread starter Yeshua1
- Start date
So no murderers were ever saved by grace of god, as that act was unpardonable sin?
Free will yes, but.
Free will and permissive will are not the same. Permissive will suggests that God allows by permission even though it goes against His desires. It would be like a parent who tells their teen child "I really don't want you to do that but go ahead if you really want."
God does not do that.
God sets boundaries with no compromise and men violate them by free will. It is called sin.
God desire that all become saved, but He also allows them to get there desires to stay lost!
freeatlast
New Member
he did not offer to people life or death depending on how they obeyed his ways under Old Covenant?
he did not really offer satan and Adam free will choice?
No, not in the sense of salvation. Salvation has always been received by grace through faith.
No, God has never told man or satan they have free will. Man was given one command and told if he broke it he would die. He exercised free will and disobeyed but God never told him he had the right to exercise such.
Last edited by a moderator:
freeatlast
New Member
Read what I wrote.So no murderers were ever saved by grace of god, as that act was unpardonable sin?
No, not in the sense of salvation. Salvation has always been received by grace through faith.
No, God has never told man or satan they have free will. Man was given one command and told if he broke it he would die. He exercised free will and disobeyed but God never told him he had the right to exercise such.
if adam has chosen to obey God, would he had been saved?
freeatlast
New Member
NO because he would not have fell to need salvation.if adam has chosen to obey God, would he had been saved?
Read what I wrote.
Would the answer be no?
freeatlast
New Member
The answer is what scripture says which is what I wrote.Would the answer be no?
And such were some of you....
Other than prophesy fulfilled, is it important who we say "killed" Jesus? Jesus died when it was time, He avoided death at times because it was not time. The most important fact is that Jesus died because God willed that I be given a second chance to be part of the family God intended for His creation.
God can make a creation that loves Him because He wants to. The reason God gave man freedom of choice is because He is so ultimately sovereign. God wanted that creation (man) to love Him by choice with the same love that God loves that creation.
This world is made of good and evil, therefore we have choices that we must make. So, IMHO, God did not predestine the murder and shooting of the "Batman" victims. but God did allow good and evil to dwell on this earth so there would be choice.
The shooter may still choose Christ as his Saviour and be forgiven by God and be in His family, but in this world, he still has the consequences of the actions that he chose.
God can make a creation that loves Him because He wants to. The reason God gave man freedom of choice is because He is so ultimately sovereign. God wanted that creation (man) to love Him by choice with the same love that God loves that creation.
This world is made of good and evil, therefore we have choices that we must make. So, IMHO, God did not predestine the murder and shooting of the "Batman" victims. but God did allow good and evil to dwell on this earth so there would be choice.
The shooter may still choose Christ as his Saviour and be forgiven by God and be in His family, but in this world, he still has the consequences of the actions that he chose.
Last edited by a moderator:
that God determined that to happen?
First of all I must express my sympathy and prayers for those still suffering as a result of this terrible and evil act.
Here are some questions that might help you answer this question for yourself?
Did God know it was going to happen when he created the world?
If you believe God knew it would happen and yet God when on and created the universe anyway isn't he the ultimate of the cause of the event?
The problem with the modern day concerns over the question of evil is that ultimately, unless you believe God was ignorent of the future when he created, you are always reduced to the same position. God is the first cause of the event - no matter how many other steps you put in between.
Now let me ask you question, do you believe Acts 2:23?
"Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken1 by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death."
This was the greaest sin ever commited, mankind muredring their God, their creator, yet what do we read?
We read that it happened according to God's foreknwoledge and predetermined purposes. God predetermined the greatest sin to have been commited, and yet he did that with a great purpose in mind to redeem men, women and children from their sins.
Personally I don't see that the God os the bible is their reacting to evil and trying his best to make it work out for good. That would make evil purposeless. No, evil is nott purposeless, nor is outside of God's soevreign decree, but it has a purpose, it has a reason - every single act of God does.
First of all I must express my sympathy and prayers for those still suffering as a result of this terrible and evil act.
Here are some questions that might help you answer this question for yourself?
Did God know it was going to happen when he created the world?
If you believe God knew it would happen and yet God when on and created the universe anyway isn't he the ultimate of the cause of the event?
The problem with the modern day concerns over the question of evil is that ultimately, unless you believe God was ignorent of the future when he created, you are always reduced to the same position. God is the first cause of the event - no matter how many other steps you put in between.
Now let me ask you question, do you believe Acts 2:23?
"Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken1 by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death."
This was the greaest sin ever commited, mankind muredring their God, their creator, yet what do we read?
We read that it happened according to God's foreknwoledge and predetermined purposes. God predetermined the greatest sin to have been commited, and yet he did that with a great purpose in mind to redeem men, women and children from their sins.
Personally I don't see that the God os the bible is their reacting to evil and trying his best to make it work out for good. That would make evil purposeless. No, evil is nott purposeless, nor is outside of God's soevreign decree, but it has a purpose, it has a reason - every single act of God does.
yes, do see that peter was bringing to us the concept that while God permits wicked men to do what they saw the right thing to do, it was pedetermined by Him to be the means to get Hios Son to be palced upon the cross in order to die an atoning death!
that was for the puirpose though of fulfilling the scriptures, to provode the propiate for the sins of His chosen elect in Christ, but how is the Joker Killer doing the Will of god by his crazy deeds?
Wouldn't it be more correct to see God havuing predestined the good things that would come out of the killers murderous acts, having ready to go His Grace andpresense to be in the situation, but NOT causing the murderous act directly?