Does Apostle paul reference water or Holy Spirit baptism In bible?

[JesusFan]

when he states that we are baptised in Christ, is he referring to it being a Spirit baptism by the HS to us, or is it water baptism?

Verses would be in Romans 6:4/Ephesians 4:5/Col 2:12?

 

[DHK]

when he states that we are baptised in Christ, is he referring to it being a Spirit baptism by the HS to us, or is it water baptism?

Verses would be in Romans 6:4/Ephesians 4:5/Col 2:12?

There is no one answer. Each verse must be studied on its own merit. Context is key.

 

[JesusFan]

There is no one answer. Each verse must be studied on its own merit. Context is key.

Since we all agree as baptists that water baptism in and of itself has no "intrensic" spirituallness residing in the water, how could it be anything other than refering to the HS in these verses of Apostle paul!

 

[Tom Butler]

Before going any further, maybe we ought to define what it means to be baptized into Christ.

My take is that it means we are identifying with Christ, with his death, burial and resurrection. It is water baptism, the public declaration that we are in Christ.

 

[JesusFan]

Before going any further, maybe we ought to define what it means to be baptized into Christ.

My take is that it means we are identifying with Christ, with his death, burial and resurrection. It is water baptism, the public declaration that we are in Christ.

that is the outward sign of the inward act already done, "circumcision" by God on our heart...

that does NOT get us into Body of Christ, THAT is the role of the HS in "Spirit baptism!"

believe the role of the HS doing that is what Apostle paul referneced in those 3 passages!

 

[DHK]

that is the outward sign of the inward act already done, "circumcision" by God on our heart...

that does NOT get us into Body of Christ, THAT is the role of the HS in "Spirit baptism!"

believe the role of the HS doing that is what Apostle paul referneced in those 3 passages!

You are making assumptions based on pre-conceived ideas stated as facts.
First, who says that the Scripture supports any such thing as that mystical "Body of Christ"? That is just your assumption.
Secondly, who says that all three of those verses cannot apply to water baptism? They could. Especially Eph.4:5. Even the older scholars like Barnes believe it did. Historically baptism was always "the gateway to the church." It didn't matter if you were RCC, or Protestant of any kind of stripe. You had to be baptized to gain entrance into the church. It was an historic pattern reaching right back to the apostles themselves.

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. (Acts 2:41)

There is the pattern, right from the apostles: saved, baptized, added unto the church. That is the way it has been all throughout history. It has never changed. All churches have had the same formula. The only thing that has changed for more liberal churches is that they have changed their definition of "saved."

But now in more modern years we have come with a new novelty of "spirit baptism" probably a left over from the influence of the Charismatic movement. That is not what the Bible is speaking about.

 

[Tom Butler]

DHK, you have it right. Although context is king, in most contexts, it is water baptism.

Yes, there is Spirit baptism, but it is not by the Holy Spirit, it is with, or in the HS. The Holy Spirit never baptized anybody. The scriptures clearly say that Jesus baptizes in the Holy Spirit.

 

[Iconoclast]

It is Spirit baptism.......water baptism pictures Spirit baptism. there is no water in romans 6.

Spirit Baptism happened once at Pentecost...like the shekinah glory entered Solomons temple.....the whole church was Spirit baptized.
When the Spirit quickens us at regeneration...all that was done back then for us ...is put to our account.
there are not seperate Spirit Baptisms...One Lord, one faith one baptism.

Spirit baptism unites us to Christ savingly placing us in union with Him. Our water baptism shows that we are professing outwardly what has taken place inwardly....so even though there is no water baptism per say ...in romans 6.....it is there in our water baptism that portrays the regenerating work of the Spirit in visual form as a God given public confession and identification.

 

[Tom Butler]

It is Spirit baptism.......water baptism pictures Spirit baptism. there is no water in romans 6.

Spirit Baptism happened once at Pentecost...like the shekinah glory entered Solomons temple.....the whole church was Spirit baptized.
When the Spirit quickens us at regeneration...all that was done back then for us ...is put to our account.
there are not seperate Spirit Baptisms...One Lord, one faith one baptism.

Spirit baptism unites us to Christ savingly placing us in union with Him. Our water baptism shows that we are professing outwardly what has taken place inwardly....so even though there is no water baptism per say ...in romans 6.....it is there in our water baptism that portrays the regenerating work of the Spirit in visual form as a God given public confession and identification.

I do think there is water in Romans 6:4. v5 says we are buried in the likeness of his death. That's what water baptism is--the likeness of his death. It's a picture of the gospel. It is a picture in such a way that Spirit baptism doesn't match.

That's also why I think the baptism in I Cor 12:13 is water baptism. The same baptism that places us into a local church. It makes sense that in one spirit we are water baptized into the body.

 

[Iconoclast]

I do think there is water in Romans 6:4. v5 says we are buried in the likeness of his death. That's what water baptism is--the likeness of his death. It's a picture of the gospel. It is a picture in such a way that Spirit baptism doesn't match.

That's also why I think the baptism in I Cor 12:13 is water baptism. The same baptism that places us into a local church. It makes sense that in one spirit we are water baptized into the body.

Hello Tom,
This is a big topic.and much to be said....getting late but let me just say this...while I agree that water baptsim is a "likeness' yes....
the reason I say Spirit baptism is primarily it is Spirit baptism that places us in UNION with Christ. When He died...we died In Union with Him...when he was raised to newness of life....with us IN HIM. Only the Spirit could place us IN HIM.
In water baptism I believe the scripture teaches several times that the water represents death;
1] The flood- [1pet 3]

2] The Exodus through the red sea [1cor 10]

3]Jonah in the fish mt12;40

Those who were rightly related to the water by God's provision were saved from death.

God's provision for us is Spirit baptism.....water baptism pictures this ..yes but it is Spirit baptism that places us In Christ...the place of safety.
Spirit baptism correctly identifies us with Christ.

13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Tom ....I believe only the Spirit can do this...water baptism to follow

 

[JesusFan]

You are making assumptions based on pre-conceived ideas stated as facts.

You are here also though, as you REFUSE to see thebiblical concept of there being JUST one single Church body, those in the Body of Christ!

First, who says that the Scripture supports any such thing as that mystical "Body of Christ"? That is just your assumption

.


Nope, more like the inspired "opinion" of the Apostle paul!

Secondly, who says that all three of those verses cannot apply to water baptism? They could. Especially Eph.4:5. Even the older scholars like Barnes believe it did. Historically baptism was always "the gateway to the church." It didn't matter if you were RCC, or Protestant of any kind of stripe. You had to be baptized to gain entrance into the church. It was an historic pattern reaching right back to the apostles themselves.

water baptism is just a "type/symbol" of the actual Baptism done by the HS in our lives!

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. (Acts 2:41)

There is the pattern, right from the apostles: saved, baptized, added unto the church. That is the way it has been all throughout history. It has never changed. All churches have had the same formula. The only thing that has changed for more liberal churches is that they have changed their definition of "saved."

actually, the process is saved by grace of god, which "baptises" us by HS into the Corporate Body of Christ, than water baptism as sign of being saved already and joining the :local branch" of the Worldwide Church of Christ!



But now in more modern years we have come with a new novelty of "spirit baptism" probably a left over from the influence of the Charismatic movement. That is not what the Bible is speaking about.

No, its rather that there was a "novel" idea of the lord JUST having local assemblies of His followers, as the bible clearly states that while there are indeed local branches, they are a part of the Worldwide Churh of Chrsit!

 

[convicted1]

when he states that we are baptised in Christ, is he referring to it being a Spirit baptism by the HS to us, or is it water baptism?

Verses would be in Romans 6:4/Ephesians 4:5/Col 2:12?

Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Here, I think it is referring to the water.

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Here, I kinda lean more to the baptism of the Holy Ghost.

Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Here, I think it is water. Mind you, that water does not save, but the water is a sign to the world, that you are now in Him, and are now a CHRISTian.

 

[DHK]

You are here also though, as you REFUSE to see thebiblical concept of there being JUST one single Church body, those in the Body of Christ!

No, JF, I don’t assume facts in existence. I take the Scriptures and show you from the Scriptures how it speaks of the local church, how God is using the local church today. I also show you how there is no mention whatsoever in the Bible of a U-church. You can’t make a declaration of a non-existent entity.

First, who says that the Scripture supports any such thing as that mystical "Body of Christ"? That is just your assumption

.

Nope, more like the inspired "opinion" of the Apostle paul!

If it was you would be able to demonstrate that position through Scripture, but you cannot. It is simply your opinion and nothing more. It has no Scriptural support. I believe the Bible not opinions.

Secondly, who says that all three of those verses cannot apply to water baptism? They could. Especially Eph.4:5. Even the older scholars like Barnes believe it did. Historically baptism was always "the gateway to the church." It didn't matter if you were RCC, or Protestant of any kind of stripe. You had to be baptized to gain entrance into the church. It was an historic pattern reaching right back to the apostles themselves.

water baptism is just a "type/symbol" of the actual Baptism done by the HS in our lives!

This “spirit baptism” is a nebulous term, more used by Charismatics. You need to define it more. The Holy Spirit never baptized anyone. At salvation every believer is baptized into Christ.

Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? (Romans 6:3)
--The most important thing to note here is that we are baptized into Christ. This baptism has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit—absolutely nothing. If you say that it does you would be advocating some sort of baptismal regeneration. It is water baptism that is symbolic of our old life being buried and our new life being risen with Christ.

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. (Romans 6:4)
--No “spirit baptism” here; only water baptism picturing our death to sin and our resurrection to a new life in Christ. If you are not saved and undergo baptism then at this point the preacher would keep you under the water because you don’t have a new life to arise to. That is why it is only a picture.

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. (Acts 2:41)

There is the pattern, right from the apostles: saved, baptized, added unto the church. That is the way it has been all throughout history. It has never changed. All churches have had the same formula. The only thing that has changed for more liberal churches is that they have changed their definition of "saved."

actually, the process is saved by grace of god, which "baptises" us by HS into the Corporate Body of Christ, than water baptism as sign of being saved already and joining the :local branch" of the Worldwide Church of Christ!

Do you really believe you can get that out of Acts chapter 2? Was Peter speaking to a worldwide church of God or a church that gathered at Jerusalem? Which one? Did 3,000 get saved at Jerusalem where they assembled or was it an assembly scattered over the world? Do you even bother to read the context??

But now in more modern years we have come with a new novelty of "spirit baptism" probably a left over from the influence of the Charismatic movement. That is not what the Bible is speaking about.

No, its rather that there was a "novel" idea of the lord JUST having local assemblies of His followers, as the bible clearly states that while there are indeed local branches, they are a part of the Worldwide Churh of Chrsit!

And yet you can’t find that in Scripture can you?