Does Bible say that Gospel requires Creationism?

[BobRyan]

How much of the Bible can be ignored and STILL have the right Gospel?

Does right understanding of the Gospel require acceptance of God's teaching on Creationism?

Can we slice up God's Word so that Creationism is false - but the Gospel is true?

How does the Bible define Creationism? What texts?


How do you read these texts?

Christ as Creator is the foundation stone of the Gospel of John

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.


The Scope and domain of the Creator – is the scope of the Gospel solution.

Col 1

Speaking of Christ - ( see vs 15)
16For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him.
17He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
18He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.
19For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,
20and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.


Worship is the duty of mankind toward our creator - according to the "everlasting gospel" message of Rev 14

Rev 14:6-7
6And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, having an eternal gospel to preach to those who live on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people;
7and he said with a loud voice, "Fear God, and give Him glory, because the hour of His judgment has come; worship Him who made the heaven and the earth and sea and springs of waters."

 

[donnA]

If any of the bible is false, then none of it is true. When you open the bible, start at Gen.1:1, God introduces Himself to us. He has always been (in the beginning God, before anything else was God) and He is the creator(created the heavens and the earth). The first thing God gives us to believe about Him is that He is and HE is the creator. If you can't get past that, how can you believe anything else He says about Himself. You can't because first thing you've done is call Him a liar.
(when I say 'you', I don't mean you personally, but use it as a general term meaning anyone with this belief)

 

[BobRyan]

Creationism Defined
God made Man at the time he made the gender for Mankind.
Gen 5:1-2
1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day when God created man, He made him in the likeness of God.
2 He created them male and female, and He blessed them and named them Man in the day when they were created.

7 Literal days – in fact 7 “evenings and mornings”
Gen 1:31
31God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.

Ex 20:8-11 (NKJV)
8 “ Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.
11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Ps 33:6-9
6 By the word of the LORD the heavens were made,
And all the host of them by the breath of His mouth.
7 He gathers the waters of the sea together as a heap;
He lays up the deep in storehouses.

8 Let all the earth fear the LORD;
Let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of Him.
9 For He spoke, and it was done;
He commanded, and it stood fast.

 

[BobRyan]

If any of the bible is false, then none of it is true. When you open the bible, start at Gen.1:1, God introduces Himself to us. He has always been (in the beginning God, before anything else was God) and He is the creator(created the heavens and the earth). The first thing God gives us to believe about Him is that He is and HE is the creator. If you can't get past that, how can you believe anything else He says about Himself. You can't because first thing you've done is call Him a liar.
(when I say 'you', I don't mean you personally, but use it as a general term meaning anyone with this belief)

Good point - hard to reconcile the blending of atheist darwinism with Christian Gospel "as if" carving out the creation foundation for the Gospel will "leave the Gospel intact".

in Christ,

Bob

 

[go2church]

If any of the bible is false, then none of it is true.


That may sound good while waving your bible around and pounding the pulpit, but it doesn't hold up to serious thinking.

The Gospel is an all or nothing proposition, but the bible isn't, because not every page of the bible is directly presenting the Gospel. So in theory it can have "false" portions and still be presenting accurately the Gospel.

So to answer your question, no, the bible doesn't require creationism

 

[Rubato 1]

If one is not a creationist at the point of salvation, he will become one soon. One cannot accept Christ and reject part of him. There may be a period of confusion, depending upon how indoctrinated he was into evelution, but sooner or later, he will side with God.

 

[donnA]

If any of the bible is false, then none of it is true.


That may sound good while waving your bible around and pounding the pulpit, but it doesn't hold up to serious thinking.

The Gospel is an all or nothing proposition, but the bible isn't, because not every page of the bible is directly presenting the Gospel. So in theory it can have "false" portions and still be presenting accurately the Gospel.

So to answer your question, no, the bible doesn't require creationism

If the bible is inspired by God, do you really think He included false stuff in it? That God lied to us?
If a person doesn't believe the bible how can they ever truely believe in Jesus and their need of salvation. Anyone can 'say' anything, but if they don't beleive the truth of scripture, all they are doing is 'saying', but not really having true faith.

 

[SBCPreacher]

If any of the bible is false, then none of it is true.


That may sound good while waving your bible around and pounding the pulpit, but it doesn't hold up to serious thinking.

The Gospel is an all or nothing proposition, but the bible isn't, because not every page of the bible is directly presenting the Gospel. So in theory it can have "false" portions and still be presenting accurately the Gospel.

So to answer your question, no, the bible doesn't require creationism

Well, if it has "false portions" concerning creation, then how do we know that it's telling us the truth about Jesus being the only way to the Father?

If it's wrong in one portion, then it's completely unreliable.

 

[Alcott]

If any of the bible is false, then none of it is true....

Good point....

Then is it true or false that a certain rich man, who refused to help a poor beggar named Lazarus, was and is alive in a flame in torment and was (perhaps is) having a conversation with Abraham?

 

[SBCPreacher]

Then is it true or false that a certain rich man, who refused to help a poor beggar named Lazarus, was and is alive in a flame in torment and was (perhaps is) having a conversation with Abraham?

Is that what the Bible says? If so, then it must be true. Why do youo choose to doubt God's Word?

 

[D28guy]

I am a creationist because that is the testimony of the scriptures, and also because the creationist view is so utterly reasonable from all perspectives...scientifically, anthropologically, hydrologically, etc etc.

In adition, because the evolution theory is such a ridiculous, absurd and far fetched fairy tale

Mike

 

[BobRyan]

I agree that there are BOTH scientific AND Biblical reasons for rejecting atheist Darwinism and even Theistic evolutionism (intelligent Design). We can agree to the intelligent design argument that is common to both Creationism and Theistic Evolutionism - but when it comes to the Bible, exegesis and the Gospel - creationism is the only thing that works.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

If any of the bible is false, then none of it is true.


That may sound good while waving your bible around and pounding the pulpit, but it doesn't hold up to serious thinking.

The Gospel is an all or nothing proposition, but the bible isn't, because not every page of the bible is directly presenting the Gospel. So in theory it can have "false" portions and still be presenting accurately the Gospel.

So to answer your question, no, the bible doesn't require creationism

Then How about addressing the factual evidence showing that the GOSPEL of John starts with the Creationism fact of scripture and the "Everlasting Gospel" proclamation in Rev 14:6-7 (also writtten by John) has this at the heart AND the Bible itself STARTS with the fall of man in the CONTEXT of creationism (something evolutionism's doctrines do not allow at all).

Without addressing the inconvenient facts of scripture raised on this point your argument is simply "wishful thinking".

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

If any of the bible is false, then none of it is true....



Then is it true or false that a certain rich man, who refused to help a poor beggar named Lazarus, was and is alive in a flame in torment and was (perhaps is) having a conversation with Abraham?

The doctrinal statements given in all parables are true -- for example in Luke 16 Christ says that the doctrinal point to the parable is "if they do not listen to the writings of Moses - (accepting them as factual and trustworthy and acting accordingly) - then NEITHER will they listen though one arose from the dead" -- A point that also works when you consider deleting the words of God written through Moses about Creationism!

Your argument that all details in all parables must ALSO be true in order that the doctrinal statement of the parable be accepted OR (as in this case) in order that clear factual historical Biblical statements such as the "account of the making of the heavens and the earth Gen 2:4" can be trusted, has never been an accepted teaching or position of Bible scholars - ever in all of time.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[donnA]

People who don't believe scripture are calling God a liar.

 

[trustitl]

If any of the bible is false, then none of it is true....

Then is it true or false that a certain rich man, who refused to help a poor beggar named Lazarus, was and is alive in a flame in torment and was (perhaps is) having a conversation with Abraham?

It is either a true story or Jesus was using it similar to a parable to teach the truth that even someone appearing from the dead will not persuade a hard hearted individual.

For example God could send a person from history that had died and have them come back and tell people that the Bible is true and without error. Sadly, not even that would convince them. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Alcott]

Your argument that all details in all parables must ALSO be true in order that the doctrinal statement of the parable be accepted OR (as in this case) in order that clear factual historical Biblical statements such as the "account of the making of the heavens and the earth Gen 2:4" can be trusted,...

Scripture is all true then, but what we want to be untrue is just a parable? Alright. And Abraham didn't mind having a story told about him which wasn't true? If he did-- or will-- that's tough, as far as he is concerned.

In the meantime, I rather enjoy the truth of Colossians 2:16, and have celebrated it by cooking shrimp on the seventh day of the week and downing it with Chardonnay at half tide. But on this board you have shown you wish to defy that verse and be critical of all those things.

 

[trustitl]

Scripture is all true then, but what we want to be untrue is just a parable? Alright. And Abraham didn't mind having a story told about him which wasn't true? If he did-- or will-- that's tough, as far as he is concerned.

In the meantime, I rather enjoy the truth of Colossians 2:16, and have celebrated it by cooking shrimp on the seventh day of the week and downing it with Chardonnay at half tide. But on this board you have shown you wish to defy that verse and be critical of all those things.

I'll come to the shrimp fest and see if I can convince you have a flawed view of scripture.:smilewinkgrin:

 

[BobRyan]

Scripture is all true then, but what we want to be untrue is just a parable?[

Your argument is that Moses is writing in parables "Because Christians arguing in favor of atheist darwinism NEED that to be the case"???

Are you arguing that I am placing certain portions of scripture in parables only because "I need them to be parables" so in that case anyone wanting to promote evolutionism should be able to argue that John 1:1-4 is a parable, that Rev 14:6-7 is a parable that Col 1:15-16 is a parable and so is any other reference to the factual data of Genesis by NT authors?

You seem to be saying "we will select anything we want to be a parable - all in service for evolutionism -- just like everyone else is doing in service to their pet theories" -- but do you really think this is how "parables" are known????

Your problem is then is that you have supposed that the Bible is more "toy" than scripture and that everyone is simply "making stuff up as it pleases them" one of those things being "what is a parable and what is not".

in that case - have you ever heard of "exegesis"????

Hint - these are not "parables" -

How do you read these texts?

Christ as Creator is the foundation stone of the Gospel of John

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.


The Scope and domain of the Creator – is the scope of the Gospel solution.

Col 1

Speaking of Christ - ( see vs 15)
16For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him.
17He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
18He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.
19For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,
20and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.


Worship is the duty of mankind toward our creator - according to the "everlasting gospel" message of Rev 14

Rev 14:6-7
6And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, having an eternal gospel to preach to those who live on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people;
7and he said with a loud voice, "Fear God, and give Him glory, because the hour of His judgment has come; worship Him who made the heaven and the earth and sea and springs of waters."


in Christ,

Bob

 

[Alcott]

You believe the book of Revelation, do you? Or just some of it? ...

When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained;
and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?"
And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also. [Revelation 6:9-11]

Yes or No --- Are the souls of those slain because of the word of God underneath the altar asking when their blood will be avenged?

If you're a coward, you will paste a lot more of your junk. If you're not a coward, you will answer Yes or No. [and the drum rolls]