Does Calvinism teach that we are born-again TWICE!

You may still be trying to determine whether or not Jesus Christ is God the Son. I have no doubts. All you have to do is read John 1:1-51. No need to wait until you get to Chapter 4 to learn that truth.

As for Nicodemus he was just an ordinary sinner who happened to have religious training.

 

OldRegular,

There is no such medical fact as you claim. The medical fact is the patient must want to get well before medicine has it's complete desired affect.

As for you question, historically speaking the sick get sicker until they receive the medicine that helps them to get well, and normally that is not an instantaneous thing as your description of "regeneration" says it is.

Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God! What wonderful medicine!

 

OldRegular,

1. That's because I believe they happen at the same time. I believe that the moment one actually believes in Jesus, that person is reborn. Please notice that I did not say the moment one believes something 'about' Jesus, but that one actually 'believes in Jesus'. It is then that the Holy Spirit enters the human spirit and takes up residence and guides the "new born" spirit in the ways of the Kingdom of God.

Jesus equates regeneration and the NEW BIRTH in John 3:1-8. In order for one to enter the kingdom of God, one must be "born again". Entry into the Kingdom of God is through faith, one must believe there is a kingdom of God before one seeks the way in. Know ye not that a man must be born again?

Then there is the discourse with Nicodemus where Jesus says to Nicodemus,
John 3: 14-16. as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so must the Son of man be lifted up so that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him. For this is how God loved the world: he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life. Notice, it does not say, "so must the son of man be lifted up so that everyone that is elect may have eternal life. Is that scripture enough? Or do you need more?

 

1. That's because I believe they happen at the same time. I believe that the moment one actually believes in Jesus, that person is reborn. Please notice that I did not say the moment one believes something 'about' Jesus, but that one actually 'believes in Jesus'. It is then that the Holy Spirit enters the human spirit and takes up residence and guides the "new born" spirit in the ways of the Kingdom of God.

Jesus equates regeneration and the NEW BIRTH in John 3:1-8. In order for one to enter the kingdom of God, one must be "born again". Entry into the Kingdom of God is through faith, one must believe there is a kingdom of God before one seeks the way in. Know ye not that a man must be born again?

Then there is the discourse with Nicodemus where Jesus says to Nicodemus,
John 3: 14-16. as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so must the Son of man be lifted up so that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him. For this is how God loved the world: he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life. Notice, it does not say, "so must the son of man be lifted up so that everyone that is elect may have eternal life. Is that scripture enough? Or do you need more? </font>[/QUOTE]You correctly state that regeneration and the new birth are synonymous. However, what is the requisite for the new birth. Jesus Christ tells us in John 3:5-8:

5. Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Please notice that nothing is required on man's part. The new birth or regeneration is solely the work of the Holy Spirit. So you see you still have not shown any Scripture where faith is a prerequisite for the new birth.

 

Nicodemus said, "How can anyone who is already old be born? Is it possible to go back into the womb again and be born?"

Jesus replied: In all truth I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born through water and the Spirit; what is born of human nature is human; what is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be surprised when I say: You must be born from above. The wind blows where it pleases; you can hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.

`How is that possible?" asked Nicodemus.

Jesus replied, "You are the Teacher of Israel, and you do not know these things!

`In all truth I tell you, we speak only about what we know and witness only to what we have seen and yet you people reject our evidence. If you do not believe me when I speak to you about earthly things, how will you believe me when I speak to you about heavenly things? No one has gone up to heaven except the one who came down from heaven, the Son of man; as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so must the Son of man be lifted up so that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him. </font>[/QUOTE]Jesus is talking about MAN! Man can experience two births, the first through water (earthly things), when the placenta breaks the water issues forth and the child's birth begins. The second in the spirit (Heavenly things), when man's spirit is changed from unbeliever to believer. No man can see the kingdom of God who hasn't experienced both of these births.

 

Nicodemus said, "How can anyone who is already old be born? Is it possible to go back into the womb again and be born?"

Jesus replied: In all truth I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born through water and the Spirit; what is born of human nature is human; what is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be surprised when I say: You must be born from above. The wind blows where it pleases; you can hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.

`How is that possible?" asked Nicodemus.

Jesus replied, "You are the Teacher of Israel, and you do not know these things!

`In all truth I tell you, we speak only about what we know and witness only to what we have seen and yet you people reject our evidence. If you do not believe me when I speak to you about earthly things, how will you believe me when I speak to you about heavenly things? No one has gone up to heaven except the one who came down from heaven, the Son of man; as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so must the Son of man be lifted up so that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him. </font>[/QUOTE]Jesus is talking about MAN! Man can experience two births, the first through water (earthly things), when the placenta breaks the water issues forth and the child's birth begins. The second in the spirit (Heavenly things), when man's spirit is changed from unbeliever to believer. No man can see the kingdom of God who hasn't experienced both of these births. </font>[/QUOTE]Wes, Outwest

It is good to see that you apparently are now in agreement that faith is not a prerequisite to regeneration or the new birth.

 

You'd be wrong about that OldRegular.

It is faith that marks the change. Faith is the evidence of things unseen.

Man's spirit cannot be reborn without the accompaniment of FAITH! Being reborn is the actual recognition of truth, and the realization of having such faith. It is the point where the Holy Spirit is actually welcomed by the human spirit.

 

Hi Oldregular;

But verse 10 tells what He is referring to. Just because verse 14 doesn't say the same does not mean the subject has Changed.
You're basing your doctrine on one verse it won't work. It's taken out of text. The Bible also says "there is no God" but inorder to understand why it says that we have to know the surrounding circumstances.
The gospel message was understood by Agrippa yet he wasn't saved. Now How did he understand.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

But verse 10 tells what He is referring to. Just because verse 14 doesn't say the same does not mean the subject has Changed.
You're basing your doctrine on one verse it won't work. It's taken out of text. The Bible also says "there is no God" but inorder to understand why it says that we have to know the surrounding circumstances.
The gospel message was understood by Agrippa yet he wasn't saved. Now How did he understand.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike </font>[/QUOTE]The passage in question and in context:

1 Corinthians 2:10-16

10. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

The Greek word translated natural has the following meaning:

1) of or belonging to breath
1a) having the nature and characteristics of the breath
1a1) the principal of animal life, which men have in common with the brutes
1b) governed by breath
1b1) the sensuous nature with its subjection to appetite and passion

Other appearances of this word in Scripture are as follows:

1 Corinthians 15:44. It is sown a natural &lt;5591&gt; body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural &lt;5591&gt; body, and there is a spiritual body.
1 Corinthians 15:46. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural &lt;5591&gt;; and afterward that which is spiritual.
James 3:15. This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual &lt;5591&gt;, devilish.
Jude 1:19. These be they who separate themselves, sensual &lt;5591&gt;, having not the Spirit.

Now please note what 1 Corinthians 2:10 tells us: But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. Notice this passage states nothing about man and the deep things of God but the Holy Spirit and the deep things of God.

In 1 Corinthians 2:12, 13 tells us:Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. In this passage Paul is speaking of those who have been regenerated, who have received the Spirit of God, and learn from the Spirit of God.

Now in 2 Corinthians 2:14 the Apostle reverts back to the unregenerate man and states: But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Therefore the preaching of the Gospel, while heard by the natural man, the unregenerate man, is foolishness to him and will remain so until God raises him from spiritual death [Ephesians 2:1-10]. Please note what Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians 1:23, 24:

23. But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24. But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

 

Hi Old Regular;
You didn't have to explain the meaning of "Natural" I'm well aware of its meaning. However that isn't what we are talking about. I agree man is a sinner and doesn't desever anything from God. How ever this doesn't affect his ability.
Christ certainly knew men could hear and understand when He explained why He spoke in Parables.
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
This is why He spoke to them in parables because they could understand. He knew that and didn't want them to.
Yet you tell me as long as they're natural they cannot understand unless they're regenerated first. I'm sorry but what you claim as I see it just is not so.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us all;
Mike

 

You may choose not to believe it but 2 Corinthians 2:14 states that the unregenerate man has no ability to choose the things of God as shown: But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

Hi Oldregular;
I guess, we will have to agree that we disagree and we probably always will. I still consider you a brother in Christ.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us all;
Mike

 

What does Jesus Christ mean when He states in John 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.