Does Calvinism teach that we are born-again TWICE!

For anyone on this thread who wishes to understand that regeneration proceeds faith I suggest the following Scripture:

John 3:3-12
3. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?
5. Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
9. Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10. Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
11. Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
12. If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

From the context we must understand that Nicodemus was an unbeliever, curious perhaps, but still an unbeliever.

Jesus Christ tells him in Verse 3 that: Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Now "born again" is synonymous with "regeneration". Please note that Jesus does not say that one must hear the Word, believe, and then be "born again". There is no indication that Jesus Christ preached any Word to Nicodemus. If He had the Apostle John would have surely told us.

As we read further we see that Nicodemus is totally confused. Jesus Christ then asks the most important of questions in Verse 12: If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?. The answer is indicated. Nicodemus, because he has not experienced the rebirth or regeneration, cannot understand heavenly things.

The Apostle Paul is totally consistent with this teaching of Jesus Christ when he writes in 1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

So we see that the "rebirth" or regeneration must proceed faith.

 

Hi Old regular;
Seems you are defending something that is never claimed in scripture. nothing you have presented says we are regenerated first nor does it say we have to be as you have suggested.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

The explanation of the parable clearly states that all heard the Word. You tell me why only one was saved.

 

Appears to me they are saying the same thing! So what's your beef?

I told you that the parens are mine, did I not? </font>[/QUOTE]Yes you did but your insertion corrupted the Scripture to conform with your beliefs. I believe that is improper.

 

You'd be wrong once again,

 

Hi Old Regular;

Because of rejection. Not all who hear the word believe it. I wish they did but that's my wish. Only because common sense tells us if it were true this world would be a much better place.
We first trust in Christ Eph 1;12 trust is the reason most do not believe. If you understood the reasons of free choice then you might change your mind. Choice is God's idea not men. It is how, it can be His will that all come to Him even though they don't.
Why would God want men to come to Him who didn't really want to. We trust Christ because we come to Love Him through His message. Believe in Christ and repent is the gospel message. This is how we are all saved. Regeneration is what happens when we believe because it is being saved. If we are renewd to God what else is there we have already been justified the moment we are renewed.
In Act 16 the jailer comes to Paul and seeks Salvation and Paul very bluntly gives him the correct answer.
Act 16:29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
Act 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
It only takes belief. You cannot convince me that believing in Christ is the deep things of God. I know some of the deep things of God and can tell the difference.
It does not require some special election because we are elected to receive the gospel and Salvation.

Rom 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

The Jews fell short in there election. They were His own and they didn't receive Him they rejected Him. His own were elect by Calvinist standards other wise they could not have been His. We all have to make our election sure Perter says so by having all the qualities before verse 10 Chapter 1. This is not a work for Salvation attitude but proof of our election.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

And again you'd be wrong!
One must believe in order to be reborn, God does not "save those who do not believe", AND salvation is said to be only those who are reborn. The Holy Spirit does not enter the unbeliever! It Cannot due to the unforgiven state of the unbeliever's sin. Holiness and Sin cannot cohabitate the same spirit! The human spirit must be open to receive the Holy Spirit in order to be reborn. The human spirit must be persuaded by truth, and truth comes from the Word of God! Once the word of God is in the mind of man the man's spirit has enough Knowledge with which to lower its guard and allow the Holy Spirit to do its work, and take its rightful place in man's spirit, thus regenerating the man.

 

Appears to me they are saying the same thing! So what's your beef?

I told you that the parens are mine, did I not? </font>[/QUOTE]Yes you did but your insertion corrupted the Scripture to conform with your beliefs. I believe that is improper. </font>[/QUOTE]My insertion did nothing to the scripture which is 2000 years old and available nearly everywhere on the face of the earth!
Yes It is my believe that faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God! That differs from yours which says that man must be made well before he can receive the medicine that makes him well!

 

Because of rejection. Not all who hear the word believe it. I wish they did but that's my wish. Only because common sense tells us if it were true this world would be a much better place.
We first trust in Christ Eph 1;12 trust is the reason most do not believe. If you understood the reasons of free choice then you might change your mind. Choice is God's idea not men. It is how, it can be His will that all come to Him even though they don't.
Why would God want men to come to Him who didn't really want to. We trust Christ because we come to Love Him through His message. Believe in Christ and repent is the gospel message. This is how we are all saved. Regeneration is what happens when we believe because it is being saved. If we are renewd to God what else is there we have already been justified the moment we are renewed.
In Act 16 the jailer comes to Paul and seeks Salvation and Paul very bluntly gives him the correct answer.
Act 16:29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
Act 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
It only takes belief. You cannot convince me that believing in Christ is the deep things of God. I know some of the deep things of God and can tell the difference.
It does not require some special election because we are elected to receive the gospel and Salvation.

Rom 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

The Jews fell short in there election. They were His own and they didn't receive Him they rejected Him. His own were elect by Calvinist standards other wise they could not have been His. We all have to make our election sure Perter says so by having all the qualities before verse 10 Chapter 1. This is not a work for Salvation attitude but proof of our election.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike </font>[/QUOTE]Why did three of the four reject the Word? By the way, not all the Jews were elected to salvation [Romans 9:6-8].

No one comes to Jesus Christ in faith unless they want to. However, no one who is unregenerate will want to come to Jesus Christ. That is the purpose of regeneration, to make spiritually alive those who are dead in sin and love darkness rather than light. They will then desire to come to Jesus Christ in faith, a faith that is itself a gift of God. God through the richness of His grace has granted to His elect spiritual life so that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in [His] kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

 

And again you'd be wrong!
One must believe in order to be reborn, God does not "save those who do not believe", AND salvation is said to be only those who are reborn. The Holy Spirit does not enter the unbeliever! It Cannot due to the unforgiven state of the unbeliever's sin. Holiness and Sin cannot cohabitate the same spirit! The human spirit must be open to receive the Holy Spirit in order to be reborn. The human spirit must be persuaded by truth, and truth comes from the Word of God! Once the word of God is in the mind of man the man's spirit has enough Knowledge with which to lower its guard and allow the Holy Spirit to do its work, and take its rightful place in man's spirit, thus regenerating the man. </font>[/QUOTE]As has been pointed out before you are confusing regeneration and salvation.

 

And again you'd be wrong!
One must believe in order to be reborn, God does not "save those who do not believe", AND salvation is said to be only those who are reborn. The Holy Spirit does not enter the unbeliever! It Cannot due to the unforgiven state of the unbeliever's sin. Holiness and Sin cannot cohabitate the same spirit! The human spirit must be open to receive the Holy Spirit in order to be reborn. The human spirit must be persuaded by truth, and truth comes from the Word of God! Once the word of God is in the mind of man the man's spirit has enough Knowledge with which to lower its guard and allow the Holy Spirit to do its work, and take its rightful place in man's spirit, thus regenerating the man. </font>[/QUOTE]As has been pointed out before you are confusing regeneration and salvation. </font>[/QUOTE]Can you quote a passage of Scripture that states that belief must proceed rebirth?

 

No it is my belief that only God can make me well, that is save me from my sins. I cannot save myself, if I could it would not have been necessary for Jesus Christ to die.

 

No it is my belief that only God can make me well, that is save me from my sins. I cannot save myself, if I could it would not have been necessary for Jesus Christ to die. </font>[/QUOTE]And Yes, God did just that 20 centuries ago! You are not subject to the death penalty for sinning!

 

And again you'd be wrong!
One must believe in order to be reborn, God does not "save those who do not believe", AND salvation is said to be only those who are reborn. The Holy Spirit does not enter the unbeliever! It Cannot due to the unforgiven state of the unbeliever's sin. Holiness and Sin cannot cohabitate the same spirit! The human spirit must be open to receive the Holy Spirit in order to be reborn. The human spirit must be persuaded by truth, and truth comes from the Word of God! Once the word of God is in the mind of man the man's spirit has enough Knowledge with which to lower its guard and allow the Holy Spirit to do its work, and take its rightful place in man's spirit, thus regenerating the man. </font>[/QUOTE]As has been pointed out before you are confusing regeneration and salvation. </font>[/QUOTE]No sir, you'd be wrong about that! I never confuse regeneration with salvation, that is a Calvinist doctrine.

 

And again you'd be wrong!
One must believe in order to be reborn, God does not "save those who do not believe", AND salvation is said to be only those who are reborn. The Holy Spirit does not enter the unbeliever! It Cannot due to the unforgiven state of the unbeliever's sin. Holiness and Sin cannot cohabitate the same spirit! The human spirit must be open to receive the Holy Spirit in order to be reborn. The human spirit must be persuaded by truth, and truth comes from the Word of God! Once the word of God is in the mind of man the man's spirit has enough Knowledge with which to lower its guard and allow the Holy Spirit to do its work, and take its rightful place in man's spirit, thus regenerating the man. </font>[/QUOTE]As has been pointed out before you are confusing regeneration and salvation. </font>[/QUOTE]Can you quote a passage of Scripture that states that belief must proceed rebirth? </font>[/QUOTE]For by grace ye are saved through faith, ....

Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

Get the connection? Salvation is through faith and faith is through hearing and believing.

 

No it is my belief that only God can make me well, that is save me from my sins. I cannot save myself, if I could it would not have been necessary for Jesus Christ to die. </font>[/QUOTE]Then stop telling us that you must be made well before you can get well!

 

No it is my belief that only God can make me well, that is save me from my sins. I cannot save myself, if I could it would not have been necessary for Jesus Christ to die. </font>[/QUOTE]Then stop telling us that you must be made well before you can get well! </font>[/QUOTE]It is both a medical fact and a spiritual fact: you must be made well before you can get well.

That being so a better question is: How does anyone get well unless they are made well?

 

And again you'd be wrong!
One must believe in order to be reborn, God does not "save those who do not believe", AND salvation is said to be only those who are reborn. The Holy Spirit does not enter the unbeliever! It Cannot due to the unforgiven state of the unbeliever's sin. Holiness and Sin cannot cohabitate the same spirit! The human spirit must be open to receive the Holy Spirit in order to be reborn. The human spirit must be persuaded by truth, and truth comes from the Word of God! Once the word of God is in the mind of man the man's spirit has enough Knowledge with which to lower its guard and allow the Holy Spirit to do its work, and take its rightful place in man's spirit, thus regenerating the man. </font>[/QUOTE]As has been pointed out before you are confusing regeneration and salvation. </font>[/QUOTE]Can you quote a passage of Scripture that states that belief must proceed rebirth? </font>[/QUOTE]For by grace ye are saved through faith, ....

Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

Get the connection? Salvation is through faith and faith is through hearing and believing. </font>[/QUOTE]You are still confusing regeneration and salvation. I suggest you read my earlier post on Salvation- A Multifaceted Gem [page 9].

You still haven't quoted a passage of Scripture that states that belief must proceed rebirth.