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Does CCM belong in the church

A

annsni

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Honestly, according to his argument, NO music should be played in church.

I do think contemporary music belongs in church as does ancient music. If it is singable, God honoring, Biblical and true, it is worthy to be sung in church.
 
Scarlett O.

Scarlett O.

Moderator
Moderator
You beat me to it annsni.

There's nothing in his indictment against the more contemporary music that he doesn't like that can't be also said of any other Christian music that he does like.

I like a whole range of Christian music. And like you say, if it honors the Lord, then it should be allowed in the church.
 
A

annsni

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
My 23 year old daughter came up with a good list of requirements for a song for it to be a good worship song. When she gets out of the shower, I'll ask her to send it to me so I can post it. :)
 
InTheLight

InTheLight

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
annsni said:
Honestly, according to his argument, NO music should be played in church.
Click to expand...

Or conversely, the title of the article could be, "Should Traditional Music be Allowed in Church" and the text could be the same.


This statement stuck out for me:

If the places where the world congregates to feed their flesh use a certain style of music it would make sense that it is probably worldly music.
If those places started playing hymns such as “The Old Rugged Cross” or “Amazing Grace” the musicians would probably be booed, and many customers would leave. Why? Because the music does not match the setting!


No, it's because they came expecting to hear electric guitars and music with a beat and not hearing hymns being sung. Has nothing to do with the setting.
 
J

JohnDeereFan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Salty said:
Click here for story
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If you've seen my posts in the "what are you listening to" threads, then you know I enjoy rock music. Secular rock, country, alt.country, Americana, folk, singer-songwriter, R&B, Beach Music, even some New Wave and "cowpunk" is about all I listen to.

But, no, I don't believe CCM or rock music belongs in church. Not because those things are morally wrong, in and of themselves (although, CCM has a lot of theology that's troubling, to say the least), but because it just isn't an appropriate vehicle for the message.

In the same way Bill Withers' "Lovely Day" is a beautiful song, but isn't appropriate for a funeral, CCM just isn't appropriate for a church setting.
 
O

OnlyaSinner

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
annsni said:
Honestly, according to his argument, NO music should be played in church.

I do think contemporary music belongs in church as does ancient music. If it is singable, God honoring, Biblical and true, it is worthy to be sung in church.
Click to expand...

By "contemporary" I assume that music somewhat imitative of current pop/rock is what is being referenced. Merely being of recent origin should have little/no bearing on whether the music is appropriate in church. A worshipful hymn like "His Robes For Mine", less than 10 years old, is of thoroughly traditional character and very strong theologically, and it's one among many such recent compositions.

I'm very traditional in my musical tastes - emphasis on "tastes" - but also recognize that there can be "guilt by association." If "Amadeus" was an accurate portrayal of Mozart (it's not) and I lived in 1785, I would not have had his wonderful music in church simply because it was associated closely with a notoriously sinful lifestyle. I also don't use alcohol recreationally, but that does not keep me from loving to hear the beer-drinking J.S. Bach's music in church or anywhere else.
 
J

just-want-peace

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
What struck me most was a comment that stated, in essence, "Does the music make you want to kneel & worship - or dance??"
That seems to sum it up for me, but then I'm just an old fogey anyway!:laugh:

Also, when the bass guitars start sounding like ole # 99 coming around the bend and up a steep grade, something inside me just wants to start destroying things; have to get away from that racket muy pronto!!
 
A

annsni

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
just-want-peace said:
What struck me most was a comment that stated, in essence, "Does the music make you want to kneel & worship - or dance??"
Click to expand...

Well, I know that there are times I just want to dance with great joy in front of God in worship! There are times that I want to kneel. I don't think there is anything wrong with either one.
 
A

annsni

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
OK - Here is what my daughter worked on and came up with on her own as a guideline for choosing songs for worship:

1) Is it theologically sound? (Is it theologically weak or watered down?)
- There are some popular worship songs that have little to no theological content. These songs tend to sing the same thing over and over again and you wonder if the worship team is stuck on repeat. Other songs might seem to be theologically deep, but when you really analyze the lyrics it contains a confusing message or talks about things that contradict the Bible.

2) Is it a performance or worship style song/is it appropriate for the setting?
- There are beautiful Christian music songs that are wonderful to sing along to. Does this mean it is good for worship? Not necessarily! While He Reigns by Newsboys is a fantastic song, it is not the type of song that is for worship. It is telling about the network of believers and how they worship the Lord, but it is not a song worshiping God.

3) Is it clear the song is talking about God or could it be about a significant other?
- If this song was sung in a bar, would the audience think this song was about God or the significant other of the song writer? Pretty clear cut on this one.

4) Is it singable for the congregation?
- Are the melody and lyrics singable for the congregation? There are some songs that pass all the other criteria while having a melody that is downright un-singable unless you study the sheet music. There also are songs that the lyrics are hard to learn, making it difficult for the congregation to enter into worship.
*
- Along with singability, it must be an appropriate style/genre for the congregation. This point can also fit in the performance or worship topic, but it is more important for the congregation. There are churches who are adding songs with Christian rap into their worship sets. Christian rap can be some of the most theologically deep and intense lyrics of any song genre. If this is a style that the congregation will accept, then by all means add it to your set. But, if you have a more traditional congregation, putting rap in the worship time would be the reason for a mass exodus from or the extinction of your congregation. You must cater to the style preferences of the congregation as you are there to lead the congregation in worshiping the Lord.

These are the first steps to determine if a single song is appropriate for the congregation you are leading.




Types of worship songs:
1) Declaration songs
* * * *a) Songs that declare what God has done, will do, or about His character
* * * *b) Songs that declare what God does or will do for us

2) Praising songs
* * * *a) Songs that praise God
* * * *b) Songs in which we surrender to Him

In a worship set, it is important to have a good mix of songs that fall into each category. Declaration songs are wonderful to show who God is and what He does for us, but they do not praise God in the way He deserves. Worship songs are a great way to open people's hearts to God, but they do not speak of who God is. It is important to have both types of songs so the set list will have meaning on multiple levels.

It also is important to consider the first set of criteria. There are some good songs that might be a little watered down theologically. By pairing a watered down song with a more theologically deep song it helps to create a balanced worship set. For example, you need to look for songs that have meat in them and not just milk. Songs that are milk are good but only in moderation! (Hebrews 5:12-14)

The format for the set list depends on the structure of the church service. You should speak with your pastor or church leader to see what they want from the worship during the service. If they are not sure, there is a basic format that works.

Start with a "gathering song." This is an upbeat song that will pull people into the sanctuary from the lobby, bring them together and get everyone singing. Then structure the songs in a decreasing tempo from that first song. The other consideration is bringing people deeper into worship. This is why the declaration songs tend to go towards the beginning of the set while worship songs go toward the end before the message.

Familiarity is also important for finding the right songs for worship which goes along with guideline 4. In a worship set for a service, the songs chosen should be familiar to the congregation. What happens if there are 5 songs in a set, and 4 of them are brand new or unfamiliar to the congregation? They will spend the worship time learning the songs instead of entering into a spirit of worship. This is why it is important to have only one new song in a set, and then repeat that song over the next few weeks so it can be learned. A good formula is, introduce a song week one, repeat the next one or two weeks, give one week off and then repeat one last week before letting it rest for a couple weeks.

I would like to remind you that these are "guidelines" and not rules set in stone. You can always change and adapt to work with the setting of the service/event where your team will be leading. Although, remember to prayerfully consider your decisions when in a place of influence. I hope this was helpful to all who participate on the worship teams...
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rsr

rsr

<b> 7,000 posts club</b>
Moderator
You bet it is. I'm at heart a traditionalist and love the old hymns (not all of them, some of which I find to be theologically unsound or irrelevant) but I am part of a praise team that sings mostly new songs.

And there are many good ones, which are theologically sound, beautiful and worshipful.

But I agree with A's daughter about some things: They must be theologically sound and they should be singable. Unfortunately, many of the new songs are not really singable by congregations, whether because of rhythm, awkward ranges or hard-to-discern melodies. The point of congregational music is to let the congregation sing, not the song leader (dating myself here) or the praise team. If they can't sing it with confidence, it's not worth using. IMO.

Say what you will against the old songs, their structure of verse-chorus-verse-chorus made them relatively easy to learn. If you couldn't get the verses, you surely would get the choruses. Some of the new music -- like that of the Gettys and Stuart Townend -- manages to blend the new with the familiar in a very singable way.

I don't like electric guitars, but I'll get over it. Bad tunes and lyrics: That I can't get over.
 
Gib

Gib

Active Member
"If it's not in the hymnal, it shouldn't be sung in church" - Blue-haired Granny #3.
 
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