Does False Teaching Really Matter?

[Van]

Whoever does not mean "everyone" and you should know better than this! It is a qualifying statement characterizing and distinguishing one group from the other.

1. WHOEVER has a ticket may enter the stadium (may board the train, enter the airport terminal, etc.).

2. It does not mean EVERYONE may enter. It means everyone WHO HAS A TICKET may enter. Everyone who DOES NOT have a ticket may not enter.

3. It should be quite clear to all that one MUST HAVE a ticket in order to enter.

Jn 3:17 is quite clear about this just in case you have not yet fully understood what 3:16 means:

He that BELIEVETH ON HIM (has a ticket) is not condemned: but he that BELIEVETH NOT (does not have a ticket) is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The underlying Greek is πᾶς πιστεύω (pas pisteuo), literally meaning: "all believing" which is translated as either whosoever believes, whoever believes, all who believe, or everyone who believes. Pretty simple and straightforward here.

A Calvinist does not have to read into the passage saying "Whoever the elect are" shall believe in him. It may be implied by all that all who believe ARE the elect.

An Arminian MAY NOT read into the passage "EVERYONE MAY BELIEVE and be saved" as the text simply does not say this. Perhaps they may or perhaps they may not. The passage simply says "All who believe are saved."

1) The Greek word translated by your translation version is "pas" and the KJV translates it as "everyone" 28 times. Either you do not know what you are talking about, or you are deliberately posting falsehood.

2) The classification criteria of "pas" is everyone who believes into Him. The ticket is supplied by God when and if He credits the person's faith in Christ as righteousness, and then transfers that individual into Christ. Thus they "believed into Him.

3) See #2.

4) Sorry but your translation of John 3:18 says "believes on Him, but the Greek reads "believes into (eis) Him. "On" is a different preposition, "epi."

5) Totally false claim. "all that believe into Him" is what the verse says.

6) You demonstrated by your post that you are simply posting your indoctrinated but false views.

I see no need to continue.

 

[Aaron]

Jesus was God incarnate!

Why the gi-normous font? Anyway...

Who said He wasn't?

, the uniquely divine Son of God.

You seem to be connecting Christ's sonship to the Incarnation. The Incarnation has nothing to do with Christ being the Son of God. The sonship of the Son is an eternal, familial standing within the Godhead.

"Only begotten" is the correct translation.

Christians should stick with what they first believed in,

I'd say the Nicene Creed captures the earliest comprehension:

And in one Lord Jesus Christ,​

the only Son of God,​

begotten from the Father before all ages,​

God from God,​

Light from Light,​

true God from true God,​

begotten, not made;​

of the same essence as the Father.​

"for God so loved the world (all of mankind) that He gave His uniquely divine Son so that whoever (and God has not foreordained who can believe) believes into Him shall not perish but have eternal life."

When you first heard that, did you hear "uniquely divine", or "only begotten"?

 

[canadyjd]

Jesus was God incarnate…..

Jesus IS God incarnate

Peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

Never take advice on understanding biblical Greek from someone who states they don’t understand biblical Greek.

Peace to you

 

[Aaron]

Jesus was God incarnate!, the uniquely divine Son of God. Christians should stick with what they first believed in, "for God so loved the world (all of mankind) that He gave His uniquely divine Son so that whoever (and God has not foreordained who can believe) believes into Him shall not perish but have eternal life."

You're blatantly inserting your own brand of revisionism into the text to rail against faithful transmissions as corruptions.

I wonder if there are any well-known christianist sects who've done the same kind of thing? Anyone?

 

[Armchair Apologist]

1) The Greek word translated by your translation version is "pas" and the KJV translates it as "everyone" 28 times. Either you do not know what you are talking about, or you are deliberately posting falsehood.

2) The classification criteria of "pas" is everyone who believes into Him. The ticket is supplied by God when and if He credits the person's faith in Christ as righteousness, and then transfers that individual into Christ. Thus they "believed into Him.

Just as you understand English words, you understand Greek words as you see how it is used in context with the rest of the phrase or sentence. Its not rocket science here, simple common sense. This is why I cited "pas pisteuo" rather than "pas" all by itself. Pas means "everyone" and I agree. Understood in its proper context (or just plain read and understood) it means "everyone who believes." QED

I see no need to continue.

And I thank you for not wasting my time.

 

[Aaron]

1) The Greek word translated by your translation version is "pas" and the KJV translates it as "everyone" 28 times. Either you do not know what you are talking about, or you are deliberately posting falsehood.

2) The classification criteria of "pas" is everyone who believes into Him. The ticket is supplied by God when and if He credits the person's faith in Christ as righteousness, and then transfers that individual into Christ. Thus they "believed into Him.

Still passive.

 

[canadyjd]

….

And I thank you for not wasting my time.

Every thread started (and there have been numerous) with the expressed purpose of disproving the doctrines of grace (rather than having an intellectual, biblical discussion of the merits of any particular belief)….

is a waste of time…

…and, as I like to say, a waste of cyber space.

Peace to you

 

[Van]

Just as you understand English words, you understand Greek words as you see how it is used in context with the rest of the phrase or sentence. Its not rocket science here, simple common sense. This is why I cited "pas pisteuo" rather than "pas" all by itself. Pas means "everyone" and I agree. Understood in its proper context (or just plain read and understood) it means "everyone who believes." QED

And I thank you for not wasting my time.

No the context does NOT say "everyone who believes" it says "everyone who believes into Him!!!!!!!!!!!" Big difference!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Van]

The rest of the response posts were all either petty insults or change of subject dodges. This is all the alternate view can post as scripture is crystal.

 

[canadyjd]

The rest of the response posts were all either petty insults or change of subject dodges. This is all the alternate view can post as scripture is crystal.

Let’s review.

The OP began with the statement that it is a “widely held belief… the message doesn’t matter…..”

You were asked who exactly holds that belief?

The very foundation of this thread is based on the falsehood that is a widely held belief.

Now, if you want to have a serious discussion instead of making false statements, then let’s talk.

Otherwise, waste of time

Peace to you

 

[Ascetic X]

“Doctrines of Grace”!! LOL

More like — Opinions of Severely Limited and Restricted Grace!

 

[Van]

“Doctrines of Grace”!! LOL

More like — Opinions of Severely Limited and Restricted Grace!

There doctrines are simply the copy and paste views from the dark ages. I consider them the "Doctrines of Disgrace."

They are defended not with rational posts, but with absurdity and insult. For example with total spiritual inability is true, and it is not, then the gospel message would not matter. Those not compelled by irresistible grace would not be able to respond whether the pure gospel or another gospel was presented. Thus false doctrine does not matter to those holding the widely held view.

Ask yourself why I only recall one poster who actually addressed my views and tried to support the alter view. Once it became clear the alternate view could not be supported from scripture, he simply stoppled posting, never admitting the truth.

 

[canadyjd]

“Doctrines of Grace”!! LOL

More like — Opinions of Severely Limited and Restricted Grace!

Do you know what the word “grace” means?

Peace to you

 

[Aaron]

When you first heard that, did you hear "uniquely divine", or "only begotten"?

I have no doubt you first heard that as "only begotten," to you now, an inaccurate notion.

Did God receive you anyway? Or did you have to make a new confession and get baptized again?

 

[Van]

Do you know what the word “grace” means?

Peace to you

Yet another "change the subject" post to their opponents qualifications. This is all they ever offer, defection and absurdity.

Scripture says false doctrines matter, but the alternate view denies that reality.

 

[Van]

I have no doubt you first heard that as "only begotten," to you now, an inaccurate notion.

Did God receive you anyway? Or did you have to make a new confession and get baptized again?

Yet another "change the subject" post to their opponent's beliefs. This is all they ever offer, defection and absurdity.

Scripture says false doctrines matter, but the alternate view denies that reality.