Does God care??

[Jeffrey H]

Onestand,

I don't know anything about this church. I can only comment based on the original post. I agree with the heart of your questions, but I think you missed my point.

Local churches create rules for themselves based on local needs. Those rules may be good or bad. This church appears to be "snobbish". They could even be a "dead" church. However, if I choose to visit this church, then I should show RESPECT for their rules whether I like them or not.

We live in an age of rudeness, disrespect, and discourtesy. Christians can do better.

--Jeff

 

[onestand]

Jeff, and i think you missed my point, it's not about this church making a rule and other's being rebellious to it...it's about how many people this church turns away for it's limitation on who can enter due to clothing. It's wrong, I don't care how you look at it...even locals who know, it's just downright WRONG, and this church should know better. I wonder if Jesus "respected" the religious leaders when they made their own rules like, no healing on the Sabath Day???

 

[Jeffrey H]

onestand,

I really haven't missed your point. In fact, I'm pretty loose when it comes to dress codes. Modesty is the rule, that's about it.

--Jeff

 

[onestand]

Jeff, point i'm trying to make is the church is placing far too much emphesis on dress code and limiting others to come than focusing on real issues. Honestly, just knowing that a church has a dress code, I would never attend it because that would tell me they don't really care about the person, just about their rules.

 

[Kathy]

I'm sorry, but to turn folks away from church? Not cool! They may have been on their way to the beach, saw the church and had a desire to see what it was all about...I bet those beach goers are not in church and have a bitter attitude toward all Christians...shameful!

Kathy
<><

 

[At His Feet]

The scripture encourages modest apparel for believers.

 

[onestand]

hmm does scripture encourage limiting those who are allowed to enter a church building?

 

[colorado_cop]

When I was a deacon, the pastor would send out a letter to all deacons announcing the date of the next Lor'd Supper. The only thing he stressed was being there on time and make sure you wear a suit. Not one word and about making sure your heart was right so that you could lead the congregation in the service.

That's the point many of us are making. With too many pastors and churches, it's about the things of eternal INconsequence that are outweighing the things of eternal consequence.

AGAIN, the Bible is crystal clear in that God looks not at the outside of man, but at the heart. Any ideas about dress code (other than modesty) that we create are simply hangups. If we use those hangups to condemn others because they don't wear suits or dresses and panyhose, then we are WRONG. That's the bottom line folks.

 

[superdave]

I would never try to wash the pig, it is way to difficult, and when you are done, they just run back into the mud, since after all, it is in a pig's nature to be dirty.

When you change the nature of the pig to be something washed and pure, than something significant has been accomplished.

Anyone should be able to come in and hear the Gospel, and experience love from those who care about changing the person's nature. Trying to wash the pig results mostly in either that person turning from your message, or complying only outwardly.

Even with new believers you have to be very careful to teach them principles and guide them into making wise choices, not simply give them the old "Godly christians don't wear skirts that are one inch above the knee"

Its really a matter of effecting lasting real change. Something that takes time, and can only be done through the Holy Spirit. You could build a congregation of hypocrites pretty fast with a bunch of stringent rules and a couple bouncers at the door to keep out the great unwashed, but it takes time to truly help people be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ.

 

[TC]

Originally posted by At His Feet:
The scripture encourages modest apparel for believers.

True, but it is not stated that those turned away were believers. Furthermore, it appears that nobody cared enough to find out. The only thing that mattered was the enforcement of the rules. And since they didn't "meet" that arbitrary standard, they were told to leave. Sad, especially if God had drawn them to the church and they were driven away for legalistic reasons.

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

A man came to our church service one Sunday night as 'drunk as a skunk'. No one turned him away. In fact, I asked him to sit next to my husband and myself. He was very quiet and respectful. I don't know if anything sank in or not, but it was not for me to decide.

These are the people Jesus is trying to reach through the church and we have no right to turn them away.

I don't remember Jesus EVER turning anyone away. He accepted them like they were.

Once people meet Jesus, they are never the same, but BEFORE they meet Him; how can we expect them to act and dress like they HAVE met Him?

 

[GREG S]

I agree that modesty is to be the code of conduct in what is worn. The decision of what
is acceptable is left to the local body and
must be according to the scriptures. If the
local church does not have authority in such
a small matter how can she judge greater matters.
All authority if given to the body of Christ,the
baptist church,by her husband.
Greg

 

[GREG S]

Correction-----
All authority IS given to the body of Christ,the
baptist church,by her husband.

 

[Pastor Sam]

Originally posted by Dr. Bob Griffin:
Man looks on the outward appearance. God looks on the heart.

IF you become a "respector of persons" depending on what they wear (or don't wear), you err.

The only dress code in my church is ~~GASP~~ from the Bible. Modesty.

(Staying on topic - beach wear probably is NOT modest!)

I would have to agree with this staement.

 

[Pastor Sam]

While I was a Pastor in Wisconsin I had a man come into my church in his swimming trunks. He walked into the center isle croosed himself and sat down. I didn't say anything as he sat on the back pew and nobody saw him but me. When I met him at the door he said he was sorry for what he was wearing but he was on his way to the lake and he was on vacation and he wasn't going to walk into the Catholic church dress in what he had on.

 

[onestand]

Greg...WRONG..absolutely and amazingly wrong!!

What one wears should strictly be between that individual and God. God is the one who has the authority in this matter, and the Holy Spirit convicts in the right times and places. Any church which sets a code of dress conduct to be followed is acting out of a human expectation and forcing personal conviction as a rule to the rest to follow. That is called dictatorship not leadership. No church should ever do that.

 

[hactonv]

As a regular to a church, I think you should know the rules and follow them, but as a visitor...give them a break , they might not be saved yet...and you're going to turn them away because they aren't dressed well??!!!
When I was growing up, on a road trip, we went to a Baptist Church(like normal) and they had dressing rooms at the front, and if the men were not in slacks and a tie, they supplied clothes for them, and you HAD to change. Then the ladies had to have a dress on.
I don't think that is right. I think that a church is there to love and guide the way. And you can do that but let the person see the true church and then you can try to show them your believes.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by er1001:
DOES GOD CARE ??

No. I don't think the church shoud ever turn away persons who are coming to church. OTOH, even at my church, we have a "shirt and shoes" dress code.

When I was in my college days, and really struggling with the direction of my life, there were plenty of days that I'd stop by the evening service on the way home from the beach. I was allowed in every time, and a greeter even shook my hand on the way in. I never got turned away. Looking back on those days, if I HAD been turned away, it probably would have made me leave church for a while, if not permanantly. I'm glad they didn't turn away, because I grew out of that, and now dress more appropriately.

I'm all for dressung up a little to go to church. I'm a business casual person most Sundays, and a suit & tie dude on Christmas and Easter. But not everyone is, and my dress should not make them feel uncomfortable. Neither should their suit, or their jeans and tee, make me uncomfortable. Everyone should dress as the feel apropriate, and allow others to do the same.

If a church doesn't like the beach attire, they need an attitude adjustment, because the Church should feel blessed that the kids are coming at all!!!

There was a teenager, not that long ago, who came by church in Sunday morning. She had left the house after a fight with her unbelieving parents. Dressed in board shorts, she hopped in her car, and headed fo the beach, distrought. On the way, she suddenly pulled over to the nearest church, stepped in, and at the end of the service, she got saved. The pastor of my church was friends with the pastor of that church, which is how we learned the story. I've wondered how different the life of that girl wold have been if someone stopped her at the door and said "sorry, ya can't come in dressed like that". If you're EVER in a situation where you just need to stop what you're doing and run into church, you should be able to.

 

[JeffM]

I think church members should dress accordingly because they know better. Most want to anyway.

I also agree that no one should be turned away from church. It's Gods house, not ours. We have no authority when we are mere guest ourselves.

I think once someone is saved, and the Holy Spirit moves through them, they will want to dress up in the Lords house if they are able to.

Also, God works in his own way. If a drunk comes to church and is saved, he may not be changed overnight. We tend to expect someone never to partake in sinful activities again immediately after they are saved. It took my grandmother several years to quit smoking after she was saved. The long process was only Gods way of bringing her closer to him. If he would have changed her overnight, then she would have missed out on some serious one on one with God. She tells me that all of the time.

But on the other hand, one of my best friends said that before he was saved, he was a fornicator, drunk and drug user. He went to church with a friend one morning drunk and high, but was called to be saved and baptized that morning. His said as soon as he came up out of the water, he felt like he came out of a cocoon. He was immediately changed in that moment. He stopped drinking, using drugs and fornicating right then and there. He cries to this day when he tells that story.

 

[onestand]

hactonv,

the church you described with forcing people to change in dressing rooms, that, in my opinion is a cult not a church.

If a church had rules on dress, I wouldn't attend the church. I disagree with the whole idea and feel it's attempting to play God to tell someone else they have to wear suite and tie or dress to worship God.