Does God Change His Mind?

[JesusFan]

29. Moreover the Glory of Israel will not recant {Q Ms Gk: MT [deceive]} or change his mind; for he is not a mortal, that he should change his mind.” (NRSV)

Let us take a look at this verse in context,

22. And Samuel said,
“Has the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices,
as in obedience to the voice of the Lord?
Surely, to obey is better than sacrifice,
and to heed than the fat of rams.
23. For rebellion is no less a sin than divination,
and stubbornness is like iniquity and idolatry.
Because you have rejected the word of the Lord,
he has also rejected you from being king.”
24. Saul said to Samuel, “I have sinned; for I have transgressed the commandment of the Lord and your words, because I feared the people and obeyed their voice.
25. Now therefore, I pray, pardon my sin, and return with me, so that I may worship the Lord.”
26. Samuel said to Saul, “I will not return with you; for you have rejected the word of the Lord, and the Lord has rejected you from being king over Israel.”
27. As Samuel turned to go away, Saul caught hold of the hem of his robe, and it tore.
28. And Samuel said to him, “The Lord has torn the kingdom of Israel from you this very day, and has given it to a neighbor of yours, who is better than you.
29. Moreover the Glory of Israel will not recant {Q Ms Gk: MT [deceive]} or change his mind; for he is not a mortal, that he should change his mind.”
30. Then Saul {Heb [he]} said, “I have sinned; yet honor me now before the elders of my people and before Israel, and return with me, so that I may worship the Lord your God.”
31. So Samuel turned back after Saul; and Saul worshiped the Lord. (NRSV)

Samuel is telling Saul that because Saul has “rejected the word of the Lord,” God has rejected Saul from being king. God is adamant about this, and He will not change His mind about it. There is no suggestion, however, that God will not change His mind when circumstance make it appropriate for Him to do so—and, as we have seen, the Scriptures tell us repeatedly that God has changed His mind when the circumstances made it appropriate for Him to do so

So God does not know if and when any lost person will get saved until they actually choose to get saved?
And will prophecy be fulfilled in full, or does God need to change His prophecies if and once He egts additional information to factor into his decisions?

 

[Piper 2]

No, God does not change his mind. The Scriptures teach that God is impassible that is he is not subject to change as James says (not as a shifting shadow).



Read Thomas Monck's A Cure for the Cankering Error.

A Cure for the Cankering Error: Thomas Monck

https://www.helwyssocietyforum.com/thomas-monck-a-cure-for-the-cankering-error-of-the-new-eutychians/

I agree. God does not change. He does not change his mind. It is not a simple question, and is very nuanced, but I believe that God has exhaustive foreknowledge and he decrees all things that shall ever come to pass. There is absolutely no difference between God knowing everything that will come to pass and decreeing. If there is something outside of his knowledge, that thing then trumps God's knowledge and God would cease to be the Almighty, greatest being in the universe.

 

[Craigbythesea]

I think there's something else there. The reason given as to why God will not lie or relent is that He is not a man (or a human being if you prefer)
Numbers 23:19 says the same thing; God does not change because He is not a man.
There is more to say about this, but it's going to take quite a long post, and I am off to prayer meeting presently. As and when and if I get time, I will post again.

Let us look at Numbers 23:19 in context,

18. Then Balaam uttered his oracle, saying:
Rise, Balak, and hear;
listen to me, O son of Zippor:
19. God is not a human being, that he should lie,
or a mortal, that he should change his mind.
Has he promised, and will he not do it?
Has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?”

In this passage, it is not God but Balaam who is speaking—and the passage does not say that Balaam’s words were inspired or theologically accurate. Compare the following verse in which God, rather than a man, is speaking,

1 Samuel 15:11. “I regret that I made Saul king, for he has turned back from following me, and has not carried out my commands.” Samuel was angry; and he cried out to the Lord all night.

Please notice also 1 Samuel 15:35,

35. Samuel did not see Saul again until the day of his death, but Samuel grieved over Saul. And the Lord was sorry that he had made Saul king over Israel.

In this verse, the author of 1 Samuel is writing in an historical narrative.


1 Samuel 15:29 and Numbers 23:19 are very clearly worded and easy to understand when read with reasonable care in context. The Bible is not used toilet paper, and when it is treated as though it is I know that there is something seriously wrong—and the problem is NOT with the Bible!

Even small schoolchildren can understand these passages from the Bible:

Jonah 3:10. When God saw what they did, how they turned from their evil ways, God changed his mind about the calamity that he had said he would bring upon them; and he did not do it.

Exodus 32:12. “Why should the Egyptians say, ‘It was with evil intent that he brought them out to kill them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth’? Turn from your fierce wrath; change your mind and do not bring disaster on your people.
13. Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, your servants, how you swore to them by your own self, saying to them, ‘I will multiply your descendants like the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have promised I will give to your descendants, and they shall inherit it forever.’”
14. And the Lord changed his mind about the disaster that he planned to bring on his people.

Jeremiah 18:7. At one moment I may declare concerning a nation or a kingdom, that I will pluck up and break down and destroy it,
8. but if that nation, concerning which I have spoken, turns from its evil, I will change my mind about the disaster that I intended to bring on it.
9. And at another moment I may declare concerning a nation or a kingdom that I will build and plant it,
10. but if it does evil in my sight, not listening to my voice, then I will change my mind about the good that I had intended to do to it.

Jeremiah 26:3. It may be that they will listen, all of them, and will turn from their evil way, that I may change my mind about the disaster that I intend to bring on them because of their evil doings.
13. Now therefore amend your ways and your doings, and obey the voice of the Lord your God, and the Lord will change his mind about the disaster that he has pronounced against you.
19. Did King Hezekiah of Judah and all Judah actually put him to death? Did he not fear the Lord and entreat the favor of the Lord, and did not the Lord change his mind about the disaster that he had pronounced against them? But we are about to bring great disaster on ourselves!"


God, being just and holy, changes His mind when the circumstances require that He do so.

(All quotations from Scripture are from the NRSV)

 

[Craigbythesea]

So God does not know if and when any lost person will get saved until they actually choose to get saved?
And will prophecy be fulfilled in full, or does God need to change His prophecies if and once He egts additional information to factor into his decisions?

The Bible says what it says! If you don’t like it, it is not the Bible’s fault.

 

[Craigbythesea]

I agree. God does not change. He does not change his mind. It is not a simple question, and is very nuanced, but I believe that God has exhaustive foreknowledge and he decrees all things that shall ever come to pass. There is absolutely no difference between God knowing everything that will come to pass and decreeing. If there is something outside of his knowledge, that thing then trumps God's knowledge and God would cease to be the Almighty, greatest being in the universe.

Jonah 3:10. When God saw what they did, how they turned from their evil ways, God changed his mind about the calamity that he had said he would bring upon them; and he did not do it.

Exodus 32:12. “Why should the Egyptians say, ‘It was with evil intent that he brought them out to kill them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth’? Turn from your fierce wrath; change your mind and do not bring disaster on your people.
13. Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, your servants, how you swore to them by your own self, saying to them, ‘I will multiply your descendants like the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have promised I will give to your descendants, and they shall inherit it forever.’”
14. And the Lord changed his mind about the disaster that he planned to bring on his people.

Jeremiah 18:7. At one moment I may declare concerning a nation or a kingdom, that I will pluck up and break down and destroy it,
8. but if that nation, concerning which I have spoken, turns from its evil, I will change my mind about the disaster that I intended to bring on it.
9. And at another moment I may declare concerning a nation or a kingdom that I will build and plant it,
10. but if it does evil in my sight, not listening to my voice, then I will change my mind about the good that I had intended to do to it.

Jeremiah 26:3. It may be that they will listen, all of them, and will turn from their evil way, that I may change my mind about the disaster that I intend to bring on them because of their evil doings.
13. Now therefore amend your ways and your doings, and obey the voice of the Lord your God, and the Lord will change his mind about the disaster that he has pronounced against you.
19. Did King Hezekiah of Judah and all Judah actually put him to death? Did he not fear the Lord and entreat the favor of the Lord, and did not the Lord change his mind about the disaster that he had pronounced against them? But we are about to bring great disaster on ourselves!"


God, being just and holy, changes His mind when the circumstances require that He do so.


(All quotations from Scripture are from the NRSV)

 

[Martin Marprelate]

The Scriptures expressly tell us that God is capable of feeling both grief and joy:

Indeed they do, but I think perhaps you misunderstand the meaning of 'Impassible' or 'without passions.'
The writers of the great confessions describe God as being 'without parts or passions.' To take 'parts' first, they mean that God is pure Spirit (John 4:24); therefore He does not have, for example, teeth, so that He wakes up in the night with raging toothache and it puts Him in a bad mood for the rest of the day. But the Scriptures describe Him as having nostrils and a mouth (2 Sam. 22:9), and eyes (Psalm 34:15). How do we reconcile this? Well partly by poetic license, but also by the Holy Spirit accommodating the Scriptures to human understanding. But God does not have parts, and here we have the doctrine of the Simplicity of God. He is not a complex creation as we are, but a singular entity. He does not change - His teeth do not drop out, nor does His hair, for He has neither. He does not change as we do (Mal. 3:16); He is quite different to us.

God is not limited by time. He is eternal and He created time and transcends it. "God's will is not suspended unto time, to see the creatures will before He wills concerning them, as if man's will were to determine His until He saw man's. His counsels are called 'counsels of old' (Isaiah 25:1), to signify the eternity of them. We poor creatures will [i.e. plan] in time; but there is no time with Him, all is eternity with Him' (Hercules Collins, 1690).

When we speak of passions, we are speaking of the motions or desires of the body and mind of man. 'Among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts [or 'passions'] of our flesh. Samuel Renihan [God without Passions, RBAP] distinguishes between 'affections' and 'passions.' To love, he says, is an affection; to lust is a passion. To be sad is an affection; to be overwhelmed by sorrow is a passion, and so forth. But God, says Renihan, has neither of these; He has perfections. God does not have love; He is love (1 John 4:8). God does not have mercy; He is merciful (Eph. 2:4). God does have joy; He is eternally blessed (1 Tim. 6:15). God does not get angry; He is angry with the wicked every day (Psalm 7:11). 'Ascribe greatness to our God. He is the Rock, His work is perfect; for all His ways are justice. A God of truth and without injustice; Righteous and upright is He' (Deut. 32:3-4).

So God cannot change, for if He were to do so, He would change, either from worse to better or from better to worse. In either case He would not be the God of the Bible.
I will come back to explain those passages where God appears to change His mind as I have time. It's bed-time in Britain now.

 

[Piper 2]

Jonah 3:10 ESV
When God saw what they did, how they turned from their evil way, God relented of the disaster that he had said he would do to them, and he did not do it.

 

[Craigbythesea]

I will come back to explain those passages where God appears to change His mind as I have time. It's bed-time in Britain now.

Of course God does not change. The changing of ones mind does not change who one is.

 

[Craigbythesea]

Jonah 3:10 ESV
When God saw what they did, how they turned from their evil way, God relented of the disaster that he had said he would do to them, and he did not do it.

0 וירא האלהים את־מעשׂיהם כי־שׁבו מדרכם הרעה וינחם האלהים על־הרעה אשׁר־דבר לעשׂות־להם ולא עשׂה׃ Jonah 3:10

 

[Piper 2]

Even Arminians can copy and paste Hebrew letters.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Let us look at Numbers 23:19 in context,

18. Then Balaam uttered his oracle, saying:
Rise, Balak, and hear;
listen to me, O son of Zippor:
19. God is not a human being, that he should lie,
or a mortal, that he should change his mind.
Has he promised, and will he not do it?
Has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?”

In this passage, it is not God but Balaam who is speaking—and the passage does not say that Balaam’s words were inspired or theologically accurate.

May I just draw your attention to Numbers 23:16 & 26 which bracket the text you quote, and also verse 20: "Behold, I have received a command to bless; He has blessed, and I cannot reverse it."
More later. Grandparenting duties call me away.

 

[JesusFan]

I agree. God does not change. He does not change his mind. It is not a simple question, and is very nuanced, but I believe that God has exhaustive foreknowledge and he decrees all things that shall ever come to pass. There is absolutely no difference between God knowing everything that will come to pass and decreeing. If there is something outside of his knowledge, that thing then trumps God's knowledge and God would cease to be the Almighty, greatest being in the universe.

And would have a very weird situation in that no certainty of any prophecy for the Future, as things may happen God was not aware about yet, and so He would have to Adjust His plans on the fly?

 

[JesusFan]

Indeed they do, but I think perhaps you misunderstand the meaning of 'Impassible' or 'without passions.'
The writers of the great confessions describe God as being 'without parts or passions.' To take 'parts' first, they mean that God is pure Spirit (John 4:24); therefore He does not have, for example, teeth, so that He wakes up in the night with raging toothache and it puts Him in a bad mood for the rest of the day. But the Scriptures describe Him as having nostrils and a mouth (2 Sam. 22:9), and eyes (Psalm 34:15). How do we reconcile this? Well partly by poetic license, but also by the Holy Spirit accommodating the Scriptures to human understanding. But God does not have parts, and here we have the doctrine of the Simplicity of God. He is not a complex creation as we are, but a singular entity. He does not change - His teeth do not drop out, nor does His hair, for He has neither. He does not change as we do (Mal. 3:16); He is quite different to us.

God is not limited by time. He is eternal and He created time and transcends it. "God's will is not suspended unto time, to see the creatures will before He wills concerning them, as if man's will were to determine His until He saw man's. His counsels are called 'counsels of old' (Isaiah 25:1), to signify the eternity of them. We poor creatures will [i.e. plan] in time; but there is no time with Him, all is eternity with Him' (Hercules Collins, 1690).

When we speak of passions, we are speaking of the motions or desires of the body and mind of man. 'Among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts [or 'passions'] of our flesh. Samuel Renihan [God without Passions, RBAP] distinguishes between 'affections' and 'passions.' To love, he says, is an affection; to lust is a passion. To be sad is an affection; to be overwhelmed by sorrow is a passion, and so forth. But God, says Renihan, has neither of these; He has perfections. God does not have love; He is love (1 John 4:8). God does not have mercy; He is merciful (Eph. 2:4). God does have joy; He is eternally blessed (1 Tim. 6:15). God does not get angry; He is angry with the wicked every day (Psalm 7:11). 'Ascribe greatness to our God. He is the Rock, His work is perfect; for all His ways are justice. A God of truth and without injustice; Righteous and upright is He' (Deut. 32:3-4).

So God cannot change, for if He were to do so, He would change, either from worse to better or from better to worse. In either case He would not be the God of the Bible.
I will come back to explain those passages where God appears to change His mind as I have time. It's bed-time in Britain now.

When God decrees, ordains, decides all of His plans and purposes, He doesthat based upon perfect knowledge and true Omniscience so How can a Prefect God have to always adjust of that whenever he got "new information?" How do we even have confidence then that Revelation will work out and that we will still "win" in the end?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Of course God does not change. The changing of ones mind does not change who one is.

You are denying the "simplicity" of the Lord. He does not have a mind distinct from the rest of Him (see my post#66 above). If He changes His mind, He changes the whole of Himself. But may I draw your attention to Isaiah 40:13-14 (referenced by Paul in Romans 11:33-36)? 'Who has directed the Spirit of the LORD, or as His counselor has taught Him? With whom did He take counsel, and who instructed Him, and taught Him in the path of Justice? Who taught Him knowledge, and showed Him the way of understanding?' Surely these are rhetorical questions, to which the answer must be "no one!"? But you have cited Exodus 32:12-14, which on the surface would make Moses the instructor of God, and have Him saying, in effect, "Yes, you're right, Moses, and I was wrong; I will take your advice," which is impossible. Is it not rather the case that God is testing Moses to see if he will abandon the Israelites, which test, of course, he passes?