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Does God Change His Mind?!
- Thread starter Marcia
- Start date
I just wanted to stop and in let everyone know that I am interested in continuing this conversation, but I'm trying to finish the renovation of our home so we can move in this weekend, and time is very short.
I've carefull read John Piper's paper against Open Theism and found it very interesting... easily the best treatment of the issue from the Calvinist side I have seen. I agree with a number of his assertions (for I'm not an open theist, nor embrace the most radical views of Boyd), but I disagree with his conclusions. He ignores (or does not see) a number of options and alternative explanations for the passages he uses as proofs.
In the next few days, I will write my analysis of his article and post it on the thread. And Marcia, I haven't forgotten the other linked articles you posted. I will examine them tonight or tomorrow night before I go to bed.
May God bless all of you! (and I do expect him to actually respond)
I've carefull read John Piper's paper against Open Theism and found it very interesting... easily the best treatment of the issue from the Calvinist side I have seen. I agree with a number of his assertions (for I'm not an open theist, nor embrace the most radical views of Boyd), but I disagree with his conclusions. He ignores (or does not see) a number of options and alternative explanations for the passages he uses as proofs.
In the next few days, I will write my analysis of his article and post it on the thread. And Marcia, I haven't forgotten the other linked articles you posted. I will examine them tonight or tomorrow night before I go to bed.
May God bless all of you! (and I do expect him to actually respond)
The Bible describes two beginning, in Genesis, the beginning of the world, In John, the beginning of God, which has no beginning.
If God had decided to tell us in John how long he had existed, they would still be writing zeros behind the number, we couldn't comprehend the number.
God is "Eternal", and when he created man, the soul was also "Eternal", in the images of God, time only became relevent to man and God when Sin enter the picture, death being the wages of sin, put a time limit on man's life, no sin, no death, eternal life.
God told Adam, In the day you sin, you die.
A day with God is a thousand years, no person has lived a thousand years since sin enter the world, all have died In the day they sinned.
However the saved will live/reign with Jesus for a thousand years and not die. (MK)
Did God "foreknow" all that would occur, certainly, Jesus was "foreordainded" before the foundation of the world was laid.
1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Adam's sin not only put a time limit on man's life, but also the earth, a time limit God "Declared from the beginning",
Ex 23:12 Six days thou shalt do thy work, and on the seventh day thou shalt rest:
Ro 9:28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.
God can/does manifest himself in many ways, his Blessing/wrath/prophecy/signs and wonders/Son, but the object lesson in each case is that God does exist.
God made/gave man "Dominion" over the earth, with the understanding that God will return and expect to receive a harvest, but some sow to reap for themselves (lust of the flesh) rather than sowing for God to reap.
Mt 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
The point is this, Man is free to sow for whatever he "Choses", himself or God, but with the understanding that God owns the Earth (vineyard) and can give it to whomever "HE CHOSES".
Ga 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Ga 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
If God had decided to tell us in John how long he had existed, they would still be writing zeros behind the number, we couldn't comprehend the number.
God is "Eternal", and when he created man, the soul was also "Eternal", in the images of God, time only became relevent to man and God when Sin enter the picture, death being the wages of sin, put a time limit on man's life, no sin, no death, eternal life.
God told Adam, In the day you sin, you die.
A day with God is a thousand years, no person has lived a thousand years since sin enter the world, all have died In the day they sinned.
However the saved will live/reign with Jesus for a thousand years and not die. (MK)
Did God "foreknow" all that would occur, certainly, Jesus was "foreordainded" before the foundation of the world was laid.
1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Adam's sin not only put a time limit on man's life, but also the earth, a time limit God "Declared from the beginning",
Ex 23:12 Six days thou shalt do thy work, and on the seventh day thou shalt rest:
Ro 9:28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.
God can/does manifest himself in many ways, his Blessing/wrath/prophecy/signs and wonders/Son, but the object lesson in each case is that God does exist.
God made/gave man "Dominion" over the earth, with the understanding that God will return and expect to receive a harvest, but some sow to reap for themselves (lust of the flesh) rather than sowing for God to reap.
Mt 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
The point is this, Man is free to sow for whatever he "Choses", himself or God, but with the understanding that God owns the Earth (vineyard) and can give it to whomever "HE CHOSES".
Ga 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Ga 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Marcia
Active Member
I don't know what a Futurist view for God is so I can't answer that question.
God can "tell time" because he's omniscient. Just because he exists outside time does not mean he can't know what time it is. He created time.
Of course God doesn't have a problem communicating time to man. He didn't have a problem creating the universe from nothing so I don't know how it would be hard for God to communicate time or in terms of time to man.
Of course I believe God interacts with us. Why did God create time? You'll have to ask God that question.
I don't think for God to interact with man in time means that God either has to exist in time or be bound to it or by it. He exists outside time but is capable of acting with man, who is in time.
Was Jesus bound by time? I would say that maybe part of what Jesus gave up temporarily was his existence outside of time in order to incarnate. But this is a pretty big question to which I don't think anyone has the answer to. It's like asking me to explain the nature of Jesus being fully man and fully God. Greater minds than mine have chewed on this -- it's like the mystery of the Trinity. We cannot totally comprehend how God became man. It's beyond us. And just because I may not be able to satisfactorily answer how Jesus was in time or wasn't in time does not make my position about God wrong.
This sounds like a red herring.
Maybe this is an area we cannot fully understand, but that does not preclude us from taking a stand on God knowing the future and whether he can change his mind. I think a reasonable person can see the consequences of what it means to believe that God can change his mind.
Just to be a devils advocate, not that I believe God changes his mind, (I do not for anyone who is looking to take bits of posts and use it for their own means), but my question is this...
Adam and Eve had children obviously to populate the world their children interbred and intermarried. Cousins with cousins, brothers, with sisters etc. Then in Leviticus(correct me if I am wrong) God let it be known that incest is not to be tolerated, Sodom and Gamorra were destroyed becasue incest (among the many other things) was going on.
So... why was it okay for a time and then not okay? Did God change His mind about it?
Adam and Eve had children obviously to populate the world their children interbred and intermarried. Cousins with cousins, brothers, with sisters etc. Then in Leviticus(correct me if I am wrong) God let it be known that incest is not to be tolerated, Sodom and Gamorra were destroyed becasue incest (among the many other things) was going on.
So... why was it okay for a time and then not okay? Did God change His mind about it?
To me, that's like asking why does God no longer requires us to sacrifice animals for our sins. It's not a change of mind, but a change in God's covenant/dispensation with man, a change that God knew he was going to make all along. A change of mind implies that God did not know future contingencies and is reacting to man or some other circumstance before He makes a decision.