Does God command the lost to do something they are unable to do?

[canadyjd]

Another poster has asserted God would not command someone to do something they were unable to do. Is this true?

I find examples throughout scripture where people were commanded to do something by God they were not able to accomplish WITHOUT the intervention of God.

1. Love the Lord your God with all your heart mind spirit. God commanded it. Everyone that believes they are able to keep this commandment please say so directly.

2. Love your neighbor as yourself. Love one another. Love your enemies. Can you keep a command to “love” someone without the intervention of the ONE who is LOVE?

3, when the rich young ruler asked Jesus what he must do to be saved, Jesus told him to keep the OT commandments. Did Jesus know he was unable to keep the commandments? Of course He did. Jesus told him to do something knowing he wasn’t able to obey. Why? To get him to realize his need for a Savior. Interestingly, when the man walked away, Jesus stated it was easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to get into heaven.

The disciples were astonished and said “WHO THEN CAN BE SAVED?” Jesus answered and gave the definitive answer that everyone should accept “WITH MAN I5 IS IMPOSSIBLE! WITH GOD, ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE!”

4. Jesus commanded us to be PERFECT, as His Father in heaven is perfect. If anyone believes they are perfect, please say so directly.

God commands things we are unable to do apart from His intervention to demonstrate our need for Him.

This is especially true when it comes to salvation (a right relationship with God). We are commanded to repent and believe, to seek God, to have faith in Jesus, to believe He rose from the dead.

Why is it so hard to accept God is in control of our salvation, from start to finish? He is the one who choses before the foundation of the world. He is the one who calls us BY NAME (a specific call to specific people, not a general call to all and then accept who responds of their own “free will”). He is the one who, by Holy Spirit, draws, convicts of sin and truth of the gospel, enables us to accomplish God’s will, comforts us, is grieved when we sin.

So, in short, scripture clearly tells us God commands us to do things we are unable to do in order to demonstrate our need of Him.

Salvation is the ultimate example of this truth.

peace to you

 

[Dr. Bob]

Answer: To the unregenerate mind, this is foolishness.

They live (by nature, even if not a conscious thought) by "If it's going to be, it's up to me". Within the being of EVERY man is a desire to BE a god and be in control.

 

[Silverhair]

Another poster has asserted God would not command someone to do something they were unable to do. Is this true?

I find examples throughout scripture where people were commanded to do something by God they were not able to accomplish WITHOUT the intervention of God.

1. Love the Lord your God with all your heart mind spirit. God commanded it. Everyone that believes they are able to keep this commandment please say so directly.

2. Love your neighbor as yourself. Love one another. Love your enemies. Can you keep a command to “love” someone without the intervention of the ONE who is LOVE?

3, when the rich young ruler asked Jesus what he must do to be saved, Jesus told him to keep the OT commandments. Did Jesus know he was unable to keep the commandments? Of course He did. Jesus told him to do something knowing he wasn’t able to obey. Why? To get him to realize his need for a Savior. Interestingly, when the man walked away, Jesus stated it was easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to get into heaven.

The disciples were astonished and said “WHO THEN CAN BE SAVED?” Jesus answered and gave the definitive answer that everyone should accept “WITH MAN I5 IS IMPOSSIBLE! WITH GOD, ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE!”

4. Jesus commanded us to be PERFECT, as His Father in heaven is perfect. If anyone believes they are perfect, please say so directly.

God commands things we are unable to do apart from His intervention to demonstrate our need for Him.

This is especially true when it comes to salvation (a right relationship with God). We are commanded to repent and believe, to seek God, to have faith in Jesus, to believe He rose from the dead.

Why is it so hard to accept God is in control of our salvation, from start to finish? He is the one who choses before the foundation of the world. He is the one who calls us BY NAME (a specific call to specific people, not a general call to all and then accept who responds of their own “free will”). He is the one who, by Holy Spirit, draws, convicts of sin and truth of the gospel, enables us to accomplish God’s will, comforts us, is grieved when we sin.

So, in short, scripture clearly tells us God commands us to do things we are unable to do in order to demonstrate our need of Him.

Salvation is the ultimate example of this truth.

peace to you

There are many things that we are commanded to do that we as fallen individuals cannot do but as you said we are commanded to repent and believe, to seek God, to have faith in Jesus, to believe He rose from the dead. These are all things that we can do and God will hold us responsible for not doing them.

Only God can save and He has chosen to save those that freely trust in Him.

 

[Silverhair]

Answer: To the unregenerate mind, this is foolishness.

They live (by nature, even if not a conscious thought) by "If it's going to be, it's up to me". Within the being of EVERY man is a desire to BE a god and be in control.

Are you suggesting that all those that do not agree with your theological view are thus unregenerate? I hope not.

While only God can save it is up to the person to chose to either trust in God or to reject Him. So from that perspective if it is going to be it is up to the person. Only God can save but He does not force anyone to be saved. Salvation is a gift that we must choose to receive.

 

[canadyjd]

…
Only God can save and He has chosen to save those that freely trust in Him.

That is simply not what scripture teaches us.

God is in control of salvation from start to finish and unless He intervenes, the lost remain unable to trust and believe the gospel of Jesus Christ; which is the only means by which God has ordained to bring people into a right relationship with Himself.

Thanks for the comment

peace to you

 

[Silverhair]

That is simply not what scripture teaches us.

God is in control of salvation from start to finish and unless He intervenes, the lost remain unable to trust and believe the gospel of Jesus Christ; which is the only means by which God has ordained to bring people into a right relationship with Himself.

Thanks for the comment

peace to you

Did I say that God was not the one that saves? NO

God has intervened in many different ways but He does not force people to trust in Him. He has used creation, the conviction of sin and He has even used the gospel message but in the end it is still the person that has to make the choice.

That is why man is held responsible for rejecting God.
Rom 1:18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness,
Rom 1:19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.
Rom 1:20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

God will use various means to draw people to Himself but the people have to choose whether to trust in Him or reject Him. That is what the bible clearly tells us.
Rom 10:9 If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

But we have been over this a number of times and you still will not trust what the bible tells you. God has chosen to save those that trust in Him.

 

[DaveXR650]

This is what I find confusing.

God commands things we are unable to do apart from His intervention to demonstrate our need for Him.

If the above is true, then are you still not going to have to use your reason to now say "OK, I can't do this so I need him". And thus you cry out to God which to do so indicates repentance and faith. How is this different than what @Silverhair is claiming?

And like in one of the Psalms (I can't find it right now) David asks God to "open his eyes" to the beauty of God's law as he reads it. This I believe is clearly an appeal for supernatural enlightenment, but there again, it is a rational appeal from someone aware they need it and the question is this: Is he by his own will asking for supernatural help, or has the supernatural help been already given, thus causing David to consciously ask for it.

Also. Jonathan Edwards, in one of his papers, warns readers that if God is dealing with your heart, do not oppose or put off closing with Christ because the Holy Spirit may withdraw from you leaving you doomed. While this warning takes it out of our hands as far as trifling with the gospel and then coming back later it also points out that there is a direct appeal to you to be reasonable and not mess this up for yourself. In other words, even Edwards puts it squarely into your own hands whether you be saved or not.

It seems like two things are constantly going on in scripture. One is that there is no physical reason or cognitive reason that we cannot hear the gospel and repent and believe it. The second is that we tend to not want to and that we have lost the ability to have the gospel and the value of Christ seem important and worthwhile to us. It is a true inability, but it is a moral inability which should not be the case except for the fact of us being the way we want to be. So we are indeed guilty and indeed unable to do anything about it - but only because we don't want to. I don't think it's possible to conclusively figure this out.

 

[Dave G]

But we have been over this a number of times and you still will not trust what the bible tells you. God has chosen to save those that trust in Him.

The Scriptures on this matter have been placed before you many times, Silverhair, but it seems that you still do not believe what is written.
Those that trust in Him are those that God has chosen to save.

They are the ones that He has foreknown, predestinated, justified and glorified...chosen from among mankind ( Romans 8:29-30, Romans 9:16-24, Psalms 65:4 ).
They are vessels of mercy afore prepared unto glory, and chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world:

" Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:
according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
in whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
that in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
in whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
that we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
in whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory." ( Ephesians 1:3-14 ).

This is not "Calvinism", it's God's word.

Perhaps re-reading what He has to say about who believes and why they do and do not believe, will help to clear things up for you.
It is my sincere hope that it will; If not today or tomorrow, then someday.

May God bless you sir.

 

[Silverhair]

The Scriptures on this matter have been placed before you many times, Silverhair, but it seems that you still do not believe what is written.
Those that trust in Him are those that God has chosen to save.

They are the ones that He has foreknown, predestinated, justified and glorified...chosen from among mankind ( Romans 8:29-30, Romans 9:16-24, Psalms 65:4 ).
They are vessels of mercy afore prepared unto glory, and chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world:

" Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:
according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
in whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
that in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
in whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
that we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
in whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory." ( Ephesians 1:3-14 ).

This is not "Calvinism", it's God's word.

Perhaps re-reading what He has to say about who believes and why they do and do not believe, will help to clear things up for you.
It is my sincere hope that it will; If not today or tomorrow, then someday.

May God bless you sir.

We have been over this many times and you still will not accept what the implications of your view are. If God has chosen all that will be saved then He has also chosen all that will be lost. So the logical conclusion from your distorted view is that the death of Christ the gospel message the conviction of sin are all meaningless. Yous so called "elect"
must have been saved without him; and the non-elect cannot be saved by him.

The god of Calvinism is not the God of scripture. Perhaps re-reading what He has to say about who believes and why they do and do not believe, will help to clear things up for you.
It is my sincere hope that it will; If not today or tomorrow, then someday.

I believe Gods' word I do not believe the misuse of scripture that is Calvinism.

 

[canadyjd]

This is what I find confusing.

If the above is true, then are you still not going to have to use your reason to now say "OK, I can't do this so I need him". And thus you cry out to God which to do so indicates repentance and faith. How is this different than what @Silverhair is claiming?
…

It is different from what @Silverhair is claiming because he claims a person can respond to God’s general revelation in creation with salvific faith. He claims many are saved having never heard the gospel. These are clearly unbiblical beliefs.

The person is unable to say “ok I can’t do this so I need Him” unless God first intervenes in their life and enables them to respond in this way.

So, in short, the difference is God’s influence.

Most people that oppose this teaching, imo, thinks it is “unfair” if God doesn’t act the same way toward every person.

peace to you

 

[Silverhair]

It is different from what @Silverhair is claiming because he claims a person can respond to God’s general revelation in creation with salvific faith. He claims many are saved having never heard the gospel. These are clearly unbiblical beliefs.

The person is unable to say “ok I can’t do this so I need Him” unless God first intervenes in their life and enables them to respond in this way.

So, in short, the difference is God’s influence.

Most people that oppose this teaching, imo, thinks it is “unfair” if God doesn’t act the same way toward every person.

peace to you

You just do not think God is actually sovereign. He can only do as you think He can. Good can save anyone He chooses so why do you want to limit God?

The intervention is the grace of God but His grace which He shows to all. The invitation can be resisted.

 

[canadyjd]

You just do not think God is actually sovereign. He can only do as you think He can. Good can save anyone He chooses so why do you want to limit God?

The intervention is the grace of God but His grace which He shows to all. The invitation can be resisted.

No matter how many times you make this claim it will never be true.

I believe scripture.

You believe man made philosophy that forces God to conform to human ideas of “fairness”.

peace to you

 

[percho]

Did I say that God was not the one that saves? NO

God has intervened in many different ways but He does not force people to trust in Him. He has used creation, the conviction of sin and He has even used the gospel message but in the end it is still the person that has to make the choice.

That is why man is held responsible for rejecting God.
Rom 1:18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness,
Rom 1:19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.
Rom 1:20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

God will use various means to draw people to Himself but the people have to choose whether to trust in Him or reject Him. That is what the bible clearly tells us.
Rom 10:9 If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

But we have been over this a number of times and you still will not trust what the bible tells you. God has chosen to save those that trust in Him.

Rom 10:9 If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. Ezek 36:26

Where and when do you think that heart to believe comes from? By something you do or something God does in you?

 

[Silverhair]

No matter how many times you make this claim it will never be true.

I believe scripture.

You believe man made philosophy that forces God to conform to human ideas of “fairness”.

peace to you

Did I say God has to be fair. NO. God is just. The fact that God doers not fit into your Calvinist view is your problem.

God being sovereign can do as He pleases and yet you continue to say He can not as then He would be doing something that your Calvinism says He cannot do.

For someone that claims to believe scripture you still deny the sovereignty of God.

 

[percho]

When was Paul able to see?
Or should I ask.
When was Paul able to see, the truth?

When did Paul receive, the Spirit of Truth? Did he reach out and grasp and rip, the Spirit of Truth, from the hands of God?

 

[kyredneck]

When was Paul able to see, the truth?

15 But when it was the good pleasure of God, who separated me, [even] from my mother's womb, and called me through his grace,
16 to reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the Gentiles; straightway I conferred not with flesh and blood: Gal 1

 

[Silverhair]

Rom 10:9 If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. Ezek 36:26

Where and when do you think that heart to believe comes from? By something you do or something God does in you?

You really need to start reading verses in context. When you do that it will clear up many of your misunderstanding of scripture.

Eze 36:24 "'For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land.
Eze 36:25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols.
Eze 36:26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.

If we followed your train of thought we would have to conclude that every Jew became a devoted follower of God.

God was saying that He would give them a new outlook through an impressible heart fit for receiving the word of God.
In Ezekiel 18:31 they are commanded, "Make you a new heart and a new spirit." Here in Ezekiel 36:26 God says, "A new heart will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you." Thus the responsibility of man and the sovereign grace of God are shown to be co-existent.

We are not to sit back and wait for God to force us to believe. We are expected to us our reason to evaluate the various means by which God draws us to Himself.

 

[canadyjd]

Rom 10:9 If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. Ezek 36:26

Where and when do you think that heart to believe comes from? By something you do or something God does in you?

After something God does in you, by His mercy.

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

…..
God being sovereign can do as He pleases and yet you continue to say He can not as then He would be doing something that your Calvinism says He cannot do.

For someone that claims to believe scripture you still deny the sovereignty of God.

I Corinthians 1 tells us that God was “well pleased” to save people through the gospel. That was His sovereign choice.

Scripture tells us God is well pleased with His Son, Jesus and His sacrifice.

Scripture very clearly reveals to us what pleases God concerning how folks are saved.

I believe scripture. You believe a man made philosophy that denies scripture because you do not approve of God’s sovereign choice in how folks are saved.

peace to you

 

[percho]

15 But when it was the good pleasure of God, who separated me, [even] from my mother's womb, and called me through his grace,
16 to reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the Gentiles; straightway I conferred not with flesh and blood: Gal 1

Love this K. I believe he was born unto what God had planed for him as was Jeremiah. I believe on the road to Damascus he was called out of unbelief unto belief. I believe when Ananias laid hands on Paul, Paul was baptized by the Spirit of Truth/Holy Spirit and believed.

I believe that is the meaning of 2 Thes 2:13 a favorite verse of some on the board.