Does God delight in burning people in Hell?

[canadyjd]

From heaven’s perspective, those who break God’s Law are vile and worthy of all loathing. They are a wretched lot, justly exposed to divine vengeance, and rightly devoted to eternal destruction. It is not an exaggeration to say that the last thing that the accursed sinner should and will hear when he takes his first step into hell is all of creation standing to its feet and applauding God because He has rid the earth of him. Such is the vileness of those who break God’s law, and such is the disdain of the holy towards the unholy. (Paul Washer, "The Cross of Christ," HeartCry Magazine)

Didn’t see anything in that quote to support the statement “according to Calvinism, God takes pleasure in tormenting people with hellfire for all eternity…”

[Snip - member needs to use quote feature if the quote exists]

 

[Silverhair]

Most of your post is just the same old rubbish that I've answered over and over again. I'll just deal with a couple of bits that I can't remember dealing with before. I don't send my children to hell. That's God's job. But Psalms 5:4-6 is in the Bible whether you like it or not. Deal with it.

No. It disproves YOUR Calvinist view.

1. Do you really believe that I think only Calvinists go to heaven? Shame on you! I have never said anything like that, and indeed have called for peace between Calvinists and Arminians on this very board. But you are not an Arminian, are you?
2. When have the majority counted for anything with God? If the majority were always right we would all be Roman Catholics.

The rest I have dealt with many times before. If there is really anything you would like me to answer, of course I will do so, but endless repetition becomes boring for writer and reader alike.

However, I am encouraged by your remark that you only became aware of the C vs A debate around 3 years ago. There is hope for you yet! I was reading a biography today of Abraham Booth who was a leading English Particular Baptist at the close of the 18th Century, and author of the famous work, The Reign of Grace. I was interested to learn that in his youth he was an Arminian and strongly opposed to the Doctrines of Grace. Eventually, he was brought to see the truth and wrote the following:

The doctrine of sovereign, distinguishing grace, as commonly and justly stated by Calvinists, it must be acknowledged, is too generally [opposed]. This the writer of these pages knows by experience to his grief and shame. Through the ignorance of his mind, the pride of his heart, and the prejudice of his education, he, in his younger years, often opposed it with much warmth, though with no small weakness; but after an impartial enquiry, and many prayers, he found reason to alter his judgement; he found it to be the doctrine of the Bible, and a dictate of the unerring Spirit. Thus patronized, he received the once obnoxious sentiment, under a full conviction of its being a divine truth.' [Abraham Booth, Memoir. Works 1:xxi]

I shall be praying for the same enlightening for you.

Once I got to the point where you called the quotes from the bible rubbish I stopped reading. You have just put yourself in that group that are called heretics. You should be ashamed of yourself but I doubt that what you have said will faze you in the least.

 

[Silverhair]

Didn’t see anything in that quote to support the statement “according to Calvinism, God takes pleasure in tormenting people with hellfire for all eternity…”

And, as I have stated before every time you respond to one of my posts, I will remind anyone who cares that you have stated “many are saved having never heard the gospel”

Such ideology is heresy, imo, and disqualifies you from offering any guidance understanding scripture or theology.

Don’t respond to my posts and I will continue to ignore you.

peace to you

If you wish to be childish that is your option.The fact you do not think God is sovereign is your problem not mine. Thankfully He does not have to hold to your errant calvinist philosophy.

Is that your only defense. I did not see the exact quote. Your theology has many errors that you just ignore. Perhaps you think God is just sending them to hell for a time out or a spring break.
The real truth of the calvinist gospel is that their God not only created around 1% (or less) of mankind for eternal life in heaven, but also created the remaining 99% (or more) for eternal torment in hell. According to calvinism God predestined some to life, and therefore predestined the vast majority to death. The calvinist God thus created two classes of mankind: one with absolute certainty of living for eternity in heaven, and the other with absolute certainty of living in hell for eternity. As I said the percentage of calvinists in Christianity is low and since only calvinist would be the ones pre selected that would mean the vast majority of Christians would not make the cut well at least according to your theology.

 

[AustinC]

If you wish to be childish that is your option.The fact you do not think God is sovereign is your problem not mine. Thankfully He does not have to hold to your errant calvinist philosophy.

Is that your only defense. I did not see the exact quote. Your theology has many errors that you just ignore. Perhaps you think God is just sending them to hell for a time out or a spring break.
The real truth of the calvinist gospel is that their God not only created around 1% (or less) of mankind for eternal life in heaven, but also created the remaining 99% (or more) for eternal torment in hell. According to calvinism God predestined some to life, and therefore predestined the vast majority to death. The calvinist God thus created two classes of mankind: one with absolute certainty of living for eternity in heaven, and the other with absolute certainty of living in hell for eternity. As I said the percentage of calvinists in Christianity is low and since only calvinist would be the ones pre selected that would mean the vast majority of Christians would not make the cut well at least according to your theology.

The infant humanist attempting to correct others is just so sad.

 

[canadyjd]

If you wish to be childish that is your option.The fact you do not think God is sovereign is your problem not mine. Thankfully He does not have to hold to your errant calvinist philosophy.

Is that your only defense. I did not see the exact quote. Your theology has many errors that you just ignore. Perhaps you think God is just sending them to hell for a time out or a spring break.
The real truth of the calvinist gospel is that their God not only created around 1% (or less) of mankind for eternal life in heaven, but also created the remaining 99% (or more) for eternal torment in hell. According to calvinism God predestined some to life, and therefore predestined the vast majority to death. The calvinist God thus created two classes of mankind: one with absolute certainty of living for eternity in heaven, and the other with absolute certainty of living in hell for eternity. As I said the percentage of calvinists in Christianity is low and since only calvinist would be the ones pre selected that would mean the vast majority of Christians would not make the cut well at least according to your theology.

Since you have accused me of misquoting you I will ask you directly…

Do you believe many are saved having never heard the gospel? Please answer directly if it is possible. In fact, please say the words “I do” or I do not” believe many are saved having never heard the gospel. That will certainly clear up any misunderstanding that I have.

If you now deny that heresy, I am so happy you have now seen some spiritual light concerning the the necessity of gospel in salvation.

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

I….

Is that your only defense. I did not see the exact quote…….

Well….yes. If you claim “Calvinists believe” God delights in condemning people to burn in hell for all of eternity and then post a quote to support that statement, most intelligent people would look for evidence in the quote that supported the claim.

What you posted doesn’t directly or indirectly support that statement.

peace to you

 

[Revmitchell]

Since you have accused me of misquoting you I will ask you directly…

Do you believe many are saved having never heard the gospel? Please answer directly if it is possible. In fact, please say the words “I do” or I do not” believe many are saved having never heard the gospel. That will certainly clear up any misunderstanding that I have.

If you now deny that heresy, I am so happy you have now seen some spiritual light concerning the the necessity of gospel in salvation.

peace to you

Do you? and if you do, do you also believe that the determinist definition of election explains why? If you do can you give clear scripture proving God intends to allow entire people groups to go to hell never having heard the gospel?

 

[Silverhair]

Since you have accused me of misquoting you I will ask you directly…

Do you believe many are saved having never heard the gospel? Please answer directly if it is possible. In fact, please say the words “I do” or I do not” believe many are saved having never heard the gospel. That will certainly clear up any misunderstanding that I have.

If you now deny that heresy, I am so happy you have now seen some spiritual light concerning the the necessity of gospel in salvation.

peace to you

How many times do I need to say it is not another gospel it is just letting God be God. You want to claim God is sovereign but then say that He can not really be sovereign if He does not save people the way you say He has to. This might come as a surprise to Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham and lets not forget David, Isaiah, Ezekiel or any of the other OT prophets.

While Romans 1:18-19 tells how bad man can be Romans 1:20 tells us that man can know God through His creation. And as this psalm tells us

Psalms 145:18 The LORD is near to all who call upon Him, To all who call upon Him in truth.
Psalms 145:19 He will fulfill the desire of those who fear Him; He also will hear their cry and save them. Because they are trusting in the living God the creator.

Those that have been convicted by the Holy Spirit John 16:8-10 may well call out to God or do you not trust that the Holy Spirit could or would actually cause that? Those that actually call out to Him He will hear. Romans 10:13 What it comes down to for me is that God is a God of love and as we are told in 1 Timothy 2:3-4 He desires all to be saved, not just those that were fortunate enough to hear the gospel message. God judges by the heart not by the words someone says as we see in Matthew 7:22-23.

I would have to conclude that you still agree with the DoG as they do limit God. And can not seem to conceive of God actually saving whomever He wants in whatever way He wants. So for you it seems only those that are included in the Unconditional Election will partake of the Limited Atonement and will be drawn to God by His Irresistible Grace. So all men do not have an equal chance to know or trust in God.

You want to limit Gods' sovereignty and that is up to you, but I do not. That is the sticking point and I doubt that it will be crossed.

 

[canadyjd]

Do you? and if you do, do you also believe that the determinist definition of election explains why? If you do can you give clear scripture proving God intends to allow entire people groups to go to hell never having heard the gospel?

I don’t believe anyone is saved without the gospel (1 Corinthians 1 and others). I am unfamiliar with the “deterministic view of election”. I am familiar with the biblical definition of election.

Romans 1 clearly states every person on the planet has rejected God already, is without excuse and stands condemned. That is the default condition of the human race.

The focus of scripture is on those brought to salvation through the preaching of the gospel of Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

There is no scripture that I am aware of that states every person that has ever lived will get the opportunity to hear the gospel. If you know of such scripture, please share it.

peace to you

 

[Revmitchell]

I don’t believe anyone is saved without the gospel (1 Corinthians 1 and others). I am unfamiliar with the “deterministic view of election”. I am familiar with the biblical definition of election.

And there we have it. The reason why these discussion can never go anywhere.

 

[canadyjd]

How many times do I need to say it is not another gospel it is just letting God be God. You want to claim God is sovereign but then say that He can not really be sovereign if He does not save people the way you say He has to. This might come as a surprise to Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham and lets not forget David, Isaiah, Ezekiel or any of the other OT prophets.

While Romans 1:18-19 tells how bad man can be Romans 1:20 tells us that man can know God through His creation. And as this psalm tells us

Psalms 145:18 The LORD is near to all who call upon Him, To all who call upon Him in truth.
Psalms 145:19 He will fulfill the desire of those who fear Him; He also will hear their cry and save them. Because they are trusting in the living God the creator.

Those that have been convicted by the Holy Spirit John 16:8-10 may well call out to God or do you not trust that the Holy Spirit could or would actually cause that? Those that actually call out to Him He will hear. What it comes down to for me is that God is a God of love and as we are told in 1 Timothy 2:3-4 He desires all to be saved, not just those that were fortunate enough to hear the gospel message. God judges by the heart not by the words someone says as we see in Matthew_7:22-23.

I would have to conclude that you still agree with the DoG as they do limit God. And can not seem to conceive of God actually saving whomever He wants in whatever way He wants. So for you it seems only those that are included in the Unconditional Election will partake of the Limited Atonement and will be drawn to God by His Irresistible Grace. So all men do not have an equal chance to know or trust in God.

If you want to limit Gods' sovereignty that is up to you but I do not. That is the sticking point and I doubt that it will be crossed.

So, you will not specifically repeat what you have said several times before?

If you believe many are saved having never heard the gospel just say those words plainly. If you don’t believe many are saved without having heard the gospel, then just plainly say those words. If you no longer believe many are saved having never heard the gospel then I will thank God He has revealed the truth to you.

You deny scripture that specifically states that God, in His sovereignty, has ordained the gospel of Jesus Christ and Him crucified as the only means by which mankind will be saved. (1 Corinthians 1)

You are denying God is able to bring to salvation every person He desires through the gospel of Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

You acknowledge God’s sovereignty as long as it fits your unbiblical theology.

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

And there we have it. The reason why these discussion can never go anywhere.

Really? There you have it? I answered your question directly. I reference scripture to support my view.

Sure, thanks for the conversation

peace to you

 

[Silverhair]

Since you have accused me of misquoting you I will ask you directly…

Do you believe many are saved having never heard the gospel? Please answer directly if it is possible. In fact, please say the words “I do” or I do not” believe many are saved having never heard the gospel. That will certainly clear up any misunderstanding that I have.

If you now deny that heresy, I am so happy you have now seen some spiritual light concerning the the necessity of gospel in salvation.

peace to you

Ignoring the realities of your theology will not make those realities go away.

 

[Silverhair]

So, you will not specifically repeat what you have said several times before?

If you believe many are saved having never heard the gospel just say those words plainly. If you don’t believe many are saved without having heard the gospel, then just plainly say those words. If you no longer believe many are saved having never heard the gospel then I will thank God He has revealed the truth to you.

You deny scripture that specifically states that God, in His sovereignty, has ordained the gospel of Jesus Christ and Him crucified as the only means by which mankind will be saved. (1 Corinthians 1)

You are denying God is able to bring to salvation every person He desires through the gospel of Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

You acknowledge God’s sovereignty as long as it fits your unbiblical theology.

peace to you

@canadyjd you keep avoiding the reality of your theology. You continue to deny the sovereignty of God. He has to fit into your errant theology or else for you He is not sovereign. So it seems you are trusting that theology more than the bible.

What I have said does not have any effect on the value of the sacrifice of Christ Jesus. You just do not trust in the sovereignty of God unless it fits into your theology.
Psalms 145:18 The LORD is near to all who call upon Him, To all who call upon Him in truth.
Psalms 145:19 He will fulfill the desire of those who fear Him; He also will hear their cry and save them.
Psalms 145:20 The LORD preserves all who love Him, But all the wicked He will destroy.

To all that call upon him in truth - In sincerity; not hypocritically; worshiping him as the true God, and with a sincere desire to obtain his favor. John 4:24. We can have no hope that God will hear us unless we are sincere in our worship. He sees the heart, and he will act toward us as we are, and not as we profess to be. Barnes

 

[canadyjd]

Ignoring the realities of your theology will not make those realities go away.

??????????

I embrace the truth of scripture.

Your beliefs render you unfit to offer guidance on scripture or theology, plus you falsely accuse me of misquoting you.. denying you said those words to the moderators, and then you refuse to plainly state what you believe whether many are saved having never heard the gospel or not.

We do much better when you don’t respond to what I post and I continue to ignore you.

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

@canadyjd you keep avoiding the reality of your theology. You continue to deny the sovereignty of God. He has to fit into your errant theology or else for you He is not sovereign. So it seems you are trusting that theology more than the bible.

Once again, and I understand you simply cannot comprehend this, scripture plainly states that God, in His sovereignty, has ordained the gospel of Jesus Christ and Him crucified as the only means by which people will be saved.

Your views steal Glory from Jesus, it renders His sacrificial death on the cross unnecessary, it makes a mockery of His High Priesthood and Kingship, makes scripture untrue and God a liar.

Your unbiblical views render you unfit to offer guidance understanding scripture and theology which is why I ignore you unless you respond to my posts.

peace to you

 

[Silverhair]

??????????

I embrace the truth of scripture.

Your beliefs render you unfit to offer guidance on scripture or theology, plus you falsely accuse me of misquoting you.. denying you said those words to the moderators, and then you refuse to plainly state what you believe whether many are saved having never heard the gospel or not.

We do much better when you don’t respond to what I post and I continue to ignore you.

peace to you

You continue to ignore clear scripture that does not fit your theology so it is your theology you believe and not the bible. You need God to fit into a little box that you have constructed and just can not or rather will not allow Him to be God.

 

[canadyjd]

Back to the OP. Your reference of Mr. Washer…

From heaven’s perspective, those who break God’s Law are vile and worthy of all loathing. They are a wretched lot, justly exposed to divine vengeance, and rightly devoted to eternal destruction. It is not an exaggeration to say that the last thing that the accursed sinner should and will hear when he takes his first step into hell is all of creation standing to its feet and applauding God because He has rid the earth of him. Such is the vileness of those who break God’s law, and such is the disdain of the holy towards the unholy. (Paul Washer, "The Cross of Christ," HeartCry Magazine)

…. fails to show that “Calvinists” believe God delights in tormenting people with hellfire for all eternity.

peace to you

 

[Silverhair]

Once again, and I understand you simply cannot comprehend this, scripture plainly states that God, in His sovereignty, has ordained the gospel of Jesus Christ and Him crucified as the only means by which people will be saved.

Your views steal Glory from Jesus, it renders His sacrificial death on the cross unnecessary, it makes a mockery of His High Priesthood and Kingship, makes scripture untrue and God a liar.

Your unbiblical views render you unfit to offer guidance understanding scripture and theology which is why I ignore you unless you respond to my posts.

peace to you

What I have said does not have any effect on the value of the sacrifice of Christ Jesus. You just do not trust in the sovereignty of God unless it fits into your theology.
Psalms 145:18 The LORD is near to all who call upon Him, To all who call upon Him in truth.
Psalms 145:19 He will fulfill the desire of those who fear Him; He also will hear their cry and save them.

 

[canadyjd]

You continue to ignore clear scripture that does not fit your theology so it is your theology you believe and not the bible. You need God to fit into a little box that you have constructed and just can not or rather will not allow Him to be God.

Just because you say it doesn’t make it true.

peace to you