Y
Yelsew
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Double post due to "error dialog" stating that connection had been refused at the BBS server.
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As I pointed out there is more than one definition for create. In fact, every pastor in every church "creates" an atmosphere suitable for Preaching the word of God. Every pastor worth his salt creates an atmosphere conducive to conversion of sinners into saints. Now obviously these scenarios in no way equate to the Creation of something from nothing, as God did in the creation of the heavens and the earth.Originally posted by Yelsew:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Frogman:
I did not mean to distress you Yelsew, just being honest. And honestly I think very poorly of your production of a secular and in my view a humanistic defintion of "create" which btw confirms the thought you were establishing in using the word "create" to attribute to man an ability he is definitely incapable of.
Bro. Dallas
As I pointed out there is more than one definition for create. In fact, every pastor in every church "creates" an atmosphere suitable for Preaching the word of God. Every pastor worth his salt creates an atmosphere conducive to conversion of sinners into saints. Now obviously these scenarios in no way equate to the Creation of something from nothing, as God did in the creation of the heavens and the earth.Originally posted by Frogman:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Yelsew:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Frogman:
I did not mean to distress you Yelsew, just being honest. And honestly I think very poorly of your production of a secular and in my view a humanistic defintion of "create" which btw confirms the thought you were establishing in using the word "create" to attribute to man an ability he is definitely incapable of.
Bro. Dallas
Could I have expected more?Originally posted by Frogman:
Yelsew,
I tried to respond to your post. It got lost in the shuffle somehow. I am not on my computer so I will answer it when I get home.
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For now just know that I think you are wrong![]()
God Bless.
Bro. Dallas
Thanks Brother Ray,Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
Brother Dallas,
Good preaching!
I think you asked why will God burn the earth again. I believe you are referring to II Peter 3:10-12. I believe He will yet judge the world with fire. I think we can safely say that He will torch the earth because of wickedness in the hearts of human being, similar to His judgment when He caused the world wide Flood in the Genesis account of things.
That is because God created man.That is because God created man. He gave man many attributes and abilities that you are so willing to deny, for the purpose of communicating with, praising, worshipping, and working for God's glory.
God's Word tells us we much choose God or face God's judgment. It also tells us that whosoever believeth in His Son shall have eternal life.
You willingly deny that man is God's crowning creation, and that God walked with and talked with man. The whole of God's word is directed to man. There is no similar word for whales, baboons, dogs, horses, spiders, etc., you get the message. Man seems to be the single most important of God's creation.
Is man worthy of God? Only one, His divine Son Jesus. Nevertheless, God seeks man for his purpose, therefore man is of some value to God, though not a value that in any manner alters or affects God, God is impervious to man, but man needs God.
So while you look at man as nothing, I look at man from the perspective that God looks at us. He made us a little lower than the angels, but higher than anything else he created. Though we fell into sin, we have not fallen from the position in which God created us, we remain just a little lower than the angels.
Agape, Phileo, and Eros are the three types of love known to man. Of those three types only one of them is considered to be an attribute and that is Agape love. The other two are things that man does from his own God given ability to "love".Love cannot be compared because at some time or the other the love of man is driven by a desire and this desire is one coming not from a pure holy love of man but from the desire of the heart; it is only after knowing the Love of God that either man or woman can properly view their spouse and love them in as near capacity as man is able to compare to that of our Holy God. Before there is a love there, but it is mixed with the desire of the flesh, can you, in your age and experience deny this?
You do not understand grace, or any of the other attributes of God which he endowed to man. An attribute of God is something that is true of God. Attributes are not dispensable, that is, they cannot be transferred from one to another as one would hand out candy from my hand to yours. So when God gives his grace to man, he is not transferring grace to man like a commodity, but is rather behaving toward man in accordance with the essence of the attribute. If you do not agree, try giving away your love. You cannot give your love to another, however, you can behave lovingly toward the other.Next, I find that not only are you willing to bring works to bear on an individual's salvation, you also are willing to deny the need of the Grace of God altogether if you can pull out of this denial a fallacy that apart from Grace man believes from his heart, prior to regeneration.
You presume much about our "working our way through them". Your evidence is not convincing!These are some of the issues I have with you. As soon as I think we are working our way through them you come back to the same argument that man possesses the same 'attributes' as God you know full well this is not true;
Jesus did not die to condemn sin, but rather to atone for sin. Jesus' death did not defeat sin, if it did we who live 2000 years after the fact would not be able to sin. We sin, therefore sin continues to exist. Where sin exists, man must recognize, through divine influence, his sins and confess, and repent from sin.God is Spirit; God was manifest in the flesh; in the flesh God died for sin to condemn sin; (this condemnation does hold in view individuals, but it has in view sin),
Jesus is called "Son of Man". It is prescribed for man to die and then the judgment. You would argue 'til you're blue in the face, that Jesus was fully man. If Jesus was fully man then he had in his essence the same mechanism that causes all men to sin. The fact that His Father is God, prevented him from falling in sin. In fact, he was tested by satan in the desert. If the possibility that he could sin was not present, what is the purpose for the testing? If it is not possible for Jesus to have sinned, the testing is a foolish exercise, and satan knew that!(another question, apart from the Cross would Christ have died? I know you think he could have because you have argued he could have sinned, only chose not to.)
No argument, except by the same Spirit of God we will all be raised. The difference is that God raised his Son in accordance with and in fulfillment of prophesy regarding the Messiah.By the Spirit of Holiness Christ (God with us--Emmanuel) was raised from the dead). Man possesses no like attribute of God, the closest one would be mercy, but even the mercy of man is limited and that of God has no depth.
You certainly have a way of denigrating that which God thought so much of as to give, in the form of redeeming ransom, his ONLY begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have eternal life.True, yet there are none who are able to make this correct choice until after having been regenerated by the Holy Spirit, apart from this man cuts down a tree, builds a fire with a portion of the wood, from this fire he derives warmth, cooking of his food and he views the sparks emminating upward toward heaven, then he takes the remainder, or a portion therof, of the stock of this tree and he fashions himself an image and bows down his head to that image, he does this because his rational mind tells him this wood is his god because it has provided these things to him, yeah, natural man will seek after god, but this god is not the True and Living God revealed in scripture.
If you are the father of a child, is that child anything but what you are? Jesus is the son of God, can he be anything but God? Man remains a little lower than the angels, that is the place where God put him. Man has not fallen to the level of the ground hog, but retains dominion over all other species, in the same place that God put him. Man retains the position, but not the status that Adam had prior to sinning. Man retains the position because God did not alter creation because man sinned. Man remains the crown of God's creation, but does not have the relationship with God that God intended for him.I do not deny the place of man in the creation of God; but man fell from this place and now it is required for Christ the daysman to take a hold of God (He only can because He is God) and to take a hold of man (He only can because though the Son of man, He is sinless) and mediate between the two to reconcile man to God. In your view you teach God reconciling to man. I deny, I reject and I denounce that position.
Do you believe that God would give his ONLY begotten son to save dust and ashes, wretches, and worms? NO! He gave his ONLY begotten son to redeem mankind from every walk of life and everywhere that man finds himself, from sin that has separated man from God.The Biblical view of man is that he is but dust and ashes, he is a wretch, he is a worm...I agree with this view...if that is what you mean to say you are right.
We most assuredly can view man from God's perspective, he gives us his perspective in our physical-spiritual make up. He tells us what we are in relationship to himself. You are mixing apples and oranges by introducing God's ways/Man's ways into this discussion. As I said earlier mankind is the God's crowning achievement in the creation, Man sinned thus separating himself from direct contact with God. You say that Man has fallen, I ask from what and where to what and where. You would have everyone believe that God significantly altered his creation to make a place of low estate for mankind, but the evidence does not support your claim for man still has dominion over the rest of God's creation. Man retains a spirit with attributes in the image of God. BUT Man sins and is therefore separated from God by that sin. God sent his son Jesus to mankind, identified him to us as the Son of God the Messiah, Jesus told us in his own words that if we believe in him we have eternal life. He taught us much of himself and of the Kingdom of God, then he allowed himself to be crucified as the atonement for our sins. He appeared to his followers after dying and being raised, and to a significant number of eye witnesses who believed in him, then he ascended in the cloud to take his rightful place at the father;s right hand, the redemption work of the father being completed! The worthy Lamb of God! I suspect that is somewhat how God sees those events.Again, you must surely not expect to think of yourself or any other of being capable, even in a saved position, of seeing anything from God's perspective. What happened to 'my ways are not your ways' God speaking to man...concerning the difference of the two ways and the higher way of God. Move on to something else, you'll never prove this through scripture, nor human rhetoric.
"Male and female he created them" This alone rules out physical image of God. Jesus, tells us that "God is spirit" The image of spirit is spirit. Therefore, man both male and female are spirit in the image of God.Genesis 1:26, 27. God said, "Let us make man in our own image, in the likeness of ourselves, and let them be masters of the fish of the sea, the birds of heaven, the cattle, all the wild animals and all the creatures that creep along the ground." God created man in the image of himself, in the image of God he created him, male and female he created them.
Works? I have never brought works into the salvation equation. And there is no confusion in my mind as to "who made who". Though by your response you appear to be confused.Further, not only do you attempt to bring in works, you continually attempt to equate the 'image' of man and his so-called 'attributes' to that of his Creator, this tells me you are confused as to 'who made who'.
For clarification, I post the definitions that are common to man for Image, Grace, Attribute, and quality.Next, I find that not only are you willing to bring works to bear on an individual's salvation, you also are willing to deny the need of the Grace of God altogether if you can pull out of this denial a fallacy that apart from Grace man believes from his heart, prior to regeneration.
IMAGE, n., v.,
Noun.
1. a physical likeness or representation of a person, animal, or thing, photographed, painted, sculptured, or otherwise made visible.
3. a mental representation; idea; conception.
4. Psychol. a mental representation of something previously perceived, in the absence of the original stimulus.
5. form; appearance; semblance: We are all created in God's image.
6. counterpart; copy: That child is the image of his mother.
Verb transitive.
15. to picture or represent in the mind; imagine; conceive.
18. to reflect the likeness of; mirror.
19. to set forth in speech or writing; describe.
21. to resemble.
Synonyms. 1, 12. IMAGE, ICON, IDOL refer to material representations of persons or things. An IMAGE is a representation as in a statue or effigy, and is sometimes regarded as an object of worship: to set up an image of Apollo; an image of a saint. An ICON, in the Greek or Eastern Orthodox Church, is a representation of Christ, an angel, or a saint, in painting, relief, mosaic, or the like: At least two icons are found in each church. An IDOL is an image, statue, or the like representing a deity and worshiped as such: a wooden idol; The heathen worship idols. It may be used figuratively: to make an idol of wealth. 2. likeness, figure, representation. 3. notion. 6. facsimile.
Antonym. 6. original.
GRACE, n., v.,
Noun.
1. elegance or beauty of form, manner, motion, or action.
2. a pleasing or attractive quality or endowment.
3. favor or good will.
4. a manifestation of favor, esp. by a superior: It was only through the dean's grace that I wasn't expelled from school.
5. mercy; clemency; pardon: an act of grace.
6. favor shown in granting a delay or temporary immunity.
8. Theol.
a. the freely given, unmerited favor and love of God.
b. the influence or spirit of God operating in humans to regenerate or strengthen them.
c. a virtue or excellence of divine origin: the Christian graces.
d. Also called state of grace. the condition of being in God's favor or one of the elect.
14. fall from grace,
a. Theol. to relapse into sin or disfavor.
b. to lose favor; be discredited: He fell from grace when the boss found out he had lied.
17. with bad grace, reluctantly; grudgingly: He apologized, but did so with bad grace.Also, with a bad grace.
18. with good grace, willingly; ungrudgingly: She took on the extra work with good grace.
Verb Transitive.
19. to lend or add grace to; adorn: Many fine paintings graced the rooms of the house.
20. to favor or honor: to grace an occasion with one's presence.
Synonyms.
1. attractiveness, charm, gracefulness, comeliness, ease.
4. kindness, kindliness, love, benignity; condescension.
5. lenity, leniency.
Antonyms. 1. ugliness. 4. animosity. 5. harshness. 19. disfigure.
ATTRIBUTE; n., v.,
Verb Transitive.
2. to consider as a quality or characteristic of the person, thing, group, etc., indicated: He attributed intelligence to his colleagues.
Noun.
5. something attributed as belonging to a person, thing, group, etc.; a quality, character, characteristic, or property: Sensitivity is one of his attributes.
7. Gram. a word or phrase that is syntactically subordinate to another and serves to limit, identify, particularize, describe, or supplement the meaning of the form with which it is in construction. In the red house, red is an attribute of house.
9. Philos. (in the philosophy of Spinoza) any of the essential qualifications of God, thought and extension being the only ones known. Cf. mode1 (def. 4b).
10. Logic. (in a proposition) that which is affirmed or denied concerning the subject.
11. Obs. distinguished character; reputation.
Synonyms. 1. ATTRIBUTE, ASCRIBE, IMPUTE imply definite origin. ATTRIBUTE and ASCRIBE are often used interchangeably, to imply that something originates with a definite person or from a definite cause. ATTRIBUTE is coming to have a complimentary connotation: to ascribe an accident to carelessness; to attribute one's success to a friend's encouragement. IMPUTE has gained uncomplimentary connotations, and usually means to accuse or blame someone or something as a cause or origin: to impute an error to him. 5. See quality.
QUALITY, n.
noun.
1. an essential or distinctive characteristic, property, or attribute: the chemical qualities of alcohol.
2. character or nature, as belonging to or distinguishing a thing: the quality of a sound.
5. a personality or character trait: kindness is one of her many good qualities.
Beloved, let us love one another. For love is of God, and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. He who loves not knows not God, for God is love. I John 4:7-8Originally posted by Primitive Baptist:
If God loves every man, woman, and child without exception, where is the evidence? Please do not say the Cross...we know multitudes upon multitudes die without ever hearing about that. So...?