atpollard
Well-Known Member
You were looking for an answer based on an appeal to human emotions devoid of any scriptural support?
How sad.
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Does God hate anyone?
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How sad.
A simple, pithy answer is what i was asking for. I can do Scripture look-up, but thanks for posting them. You failed to define the word in it's context. You inferred much, but fell short in giving a definition. It's all good, my brother! I'll be more clear next time!You were looking for an answer based on an appeal to human emotions devoid of any scriptural support?
How sad.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
Here is one context in scripture where we see God loving one less than another ...
[Rev 14:19-20 NKJV] 19 So the angel thrust his sickle into the earth and gathered the vine of the earth, and threw [it] into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20 And the winepress was trampled outside the city, and blood came out of the winepress, up to the horses' bridles, for one thousand six hundred furlongs.
[Rev 19:15 NKJV] 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
And behold, another example of God loving someone less ...
[Mal 1:2-5 NKJV]
2 “I have loved you,” says the LORD.
“Yet you say, ‘In what way have You loved us?’
Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?”
Says the LORD.
“Yet Jacob I have loved;
3 But Esau I have hated,
And laid waste his mountains and his heritage
For the jackals of the wilderness.”
4 Even though Edom has said,
“We have been impoverished,
But we will return and build the desolate places,”
Thus says the LORD of hosts:
“They may build, but I will throw down;
They shall be called the Territory of Wickedness,
And the people against whom the LORD will have indignation forever.
5 Your eyes shall see,
And you shall say,
‘The LORD is magnified beyond the border of Israel.’
[Rev 14:19-20 NKJV] 19 So the angel thrust his sickle into the earth and gathered the vine of the earth, and threw [it] into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20 And the winepress was trampled outside the city, and blood came out of the winepress, up to the horses' bridles, for one thousand six hundred furlongs.
[Rev 19:15 NKJV] 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
And behold, another example of God loving someone less ...
[Mal 1:2-5 NKJV]
2 “I have loved you,” says the LORD.
“Yet you say, ‘In what way have You loved us?’
Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?”
Says the LORD.
“Yet Jacob I have loved;
3 But Esau I have hated,
And laid waste his mountains and his heritage
For the jackals of the wilderness.”
4 Even though Edom has said,
“We have been impoverished,
But we will return and build the desolate places,”
Thus says the LORD of hosts:
“They may build, but I will throw down;
They shall be called the Territory of Wickedness,
And the people against whom the LORD will have indignation forever.
5 Your eyes shall see,
And you shall say,
‘The LORD is magnified beyond the border of Israel.’
So i should hate my mother by smashing her into a wine press?
Words not only have meanings--only in context--but they also have usages.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
If you are God and she is reprobate, then yes.
The question is not "How are we called to hate?" the question is "Does God hate?" Scripture is clear that YES, God does hate. It has been stated that God's "hate" is actually only a "love less". I thought it was worth while to offer examples of GOD's hate from scripture to point out the folly of that 'warm, fuzzy' 100% human assertion. The God of the Bible does not match the "idol" presented as only "loving less".
The problem in this is that the anger and hatred of God would be perfect and true, something that rarely, if ever, we can do!
He hates those whose lifestyles are wicked, whose walk is bent away from Him in a continual basis!
Greetings there brother!
I clearly see it says "God hates," but because we use words differently than what some words have been translated as, i figured it would be helpful to define "hate" in context. No one is talking about a warm, fuzzy definition.
Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
So is the Lord telling us to hate?... Or is he telling us that he comes first and not to put anything between us and him?... Brother Glen
He was saying put God forst before ANY other relationship, but God also does hate those who work iniquity, and whose sins are not cleansed by the blood of jesus!Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
So is the Lord telling us to hate?... Or is he telling us that he comes first and not to put anything between us and him?... Brother Glen
atpollard
Well-Known Member
The topic is "Does God hate anyone?"Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
So is the Lord telling us to hate?... Or is he telling us that he comes first and not to put anything between us and him?... Brother Glen
Are you confused about whether or not YOU are God?
To help resolve your confusion ... What are WE told to do with our enemies and what does God do with His enemies?
The topic is "Does God hate anyone?"
Are you confused about whether or not YOU are God?
To help resolve your confusion ... What are WE told to do with our enemies and what does God do with His enemies?
My bad, coming out from underneath my rock... Now to get back on topic
... Well scripture say he does!... Now does he or does he just love less, as some say?... Well if that is true why use the word hate?... Brother Glen
Rockson
Active Member
An interesting question.
First a couple of scriptures you put down, Psalm 15:4 Psalm 5:5
Seems like a denial of the clear text to say that he doesn't "hate" BUT....other things we need to look at as well. Jesus told us to LOVE our enemies. Would God tell us do something he wasn't willing to do? Does not God have to lead by example? Some would say not. I would think God would say I most certainly do! Now read this,
You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy. But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. Matt 5:44
So what do we see there clear as a bell? God....LOVES his enemies! But I thought God said he "hates all the workers of iniquity?" Psalm 5:5 He does...but we'll get there in a sec.
Scriptures tells us likewise, 'Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love 1 John 4:9 Scripture doesn't seem to say God has LOVE but that God is LOVE. Are we to believe that LOVE is absolute? I think so. We have a hard time imagining things in an absolute degree.
Science says there is such a things as absolute cold & the opposite of that...heat. Cold -459 below & Heat 10/32 Kelvin. Again I'm referring to absolute things here. So with God....I'd say God is LOVE....as in LOVE absolute.....LOVE where there is no hate....no selfishness....no darkness.
And this is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you: God is light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. 1 John 1 :6
So what he's trying to get across again is the theme of absolutes......no darkness....zero, absolute life....absolute light....and absolute LOVE. Now that would mean as well....no hate.
Well....a good question.....if God is LOVE with zero hate (and trust me you can be thankful that's the type of universe we live in) but if God is LOVE with zero hate how can it say things like Psalm 15:4 or Psalm 5:5 and maybe a few other similar verses. It can say these things and God can still be LOVE absolute because how you're considering the words is not a true reflection on how they were meant to be taken. It's rightly dividing and understanding the word of truth. 2 Tim 2:15 The word "hate" in some of these scriptures is a form of metonymy.
One could like "I hate Shakespeare" The statement may be true BUT....not true if one allows as one must different ways that language can be used. One hating Shakespeare can mean nothing more than someone despising his literary works or they can't stand what he produces. So in saying God hates sinners yes that's connected them and yet...IT'S NOT .
We all seen people as well who say they hate people. One might say they 'hate' their mother-in-law. I've seen as well sometimes parents will say about their offspring (I'm speaking more so of say a rebellious teenager causing their parent's hearts grief) and some will say sometimes I feel like I hate my own kid. But do they REALLY hate them? If something tragic happened to their offspring how would they feel. Heartbroken, sad and there would be much weeping because regardless of what their offspring did....THEY STILL LOVED THEM! You see this with David and his son Absalom when he died David grieved greatly.
And the king was deeply moved and went up to the chamber over the gate and wept. And as he went, he said, “O my son Absalom, my son, my son Absalom! Would I had died instead of you, O Absalom, my son, my son!” (2 Samuel 18:33 ESV)
What do we see about God?
Say to them: ‘As I live,’ says the Lord God, ‘I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why should you die, O house of Israel?’ Ezekiel 33:11
Hold it now! I thought God hated all those who practice iniquity? Seems like he's caring for them as in the verse above! He wanted the wicked to turn and live! 2 Samuel 18: 33 & Ezekiel 33:11 have a similar ring! Sounds like the passion of a Father God reaching out to someone they love.....To the wicked though? Yep...seems clear from verse Eze 33:11
So I contend that God is LOVE as in LOVE absolute however but keep this in mind...it doesn't mean that judgement may not ever need to take place, in a world, nation or towards a person. The universe still has to have justice which in turn may require judgement.
One last side thing here....most know here that I'm not fan of Calvinistic thinking. But to those who are here's something to think about. If I asked you do you believe God hates all workers of iniquity? I'm sure you'd say YES. But now I ask well weren't you yourself a worker of iniquity? Well yes....well then how it is that can God love you? You feel he picked you and set you aside to love....but how so? He hates all workers of iniquity! So maybe you get my point. The word "hate" in scripture isn't defined in the way you've thought it was...GOD doesn't REALLY HATE. Not in the sense you've been thinking. Hope you've enjoyed this and PEACE
Perhaps he told us not to hate, as He hates, because we are incapable of hating with the absolute purity, with no ulterior motives, as He does?
Are you planning to die on the cross any time soon? We are not to follow His example. We are to OBEY Him.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
[Psa 5:5 NASB] 5 The boastful shall not stand before Your eyes; You hate all who do iniquity.
[Psa 15:4 NASB] 4 In whose eyes a reprobate is despised, But who honors those who fear the LORD; He swears to his own hurt and does not change;
[Psa 15:4 NASB] 4 In whose eyes a reprobate is despised, But who honors those who fear the LORD; He swears to his own hurt and does not change;
Yes it does.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Yes, we were, and yes, He does.
"The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth." ( Psalms 11:5 )
But, there's this one thing that sets His children apart from the rest:
" But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11 And not only [so], but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement." ( Romans 5:8-11 )
His children were His enemies, and He reconciled them to Himself by the death of His Son.
" For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell;
20 and, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, [I say], whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven.
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in [your] mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:" ( Colossians 1:19-22 )
...and because of His mercy and for His great love wherewith He loved His children, even when they were dead in their sins...
" But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 and hath raised [us] up together, and made us sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:
7 that in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in [his] kindness toward us through Christ Jesus." ( Ephesians 24-7 )
His children are not workers of iniquity after he changes them:
" Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God." ( 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 )
They are new creatures that He loves:
" Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things [are] of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 to wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech [you] by us: we pray [you] in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.
21 For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. " ( 2 Corinthians 5:17-21 )
...and their deeds are shown to be worked in God:
" And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God." ( John 3:19-21 )
Their sins are forgiven, their natures changed, and He does not hate them, for they are not workers of iniquity...they are doers of righteousness, even though they stumble into sins.
May His blessings be evident to you all.
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Rockson
Active Member
Yes, we were, and yes, He does.
"The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth." ( Psalms 11:5 )
Dear Friend....did you not read in one word I said in post 33? Not even one? I did not deny those scriptures about hate are there! Didn't I clearly reveal there's a different way such a word "hate" can be understood?
Well Dave it's you and your fellow Calvinists which are limiting God's LOVE to yourselves by putting some strange emphasis on the word "US" in that text. Why wouldn't he say "us" in that scripture? He's writing to a church audience! Keep in mind other's of US are seeking to tell you redemption is for all men on the planet and he wants ALL men to repent. Doesn't mean they all will but he wants them too. And may I suggest you're still left with a great problem here. God either "hates" all the workers of iniquity or he doesn't and surely you aren't going to deny you weren't born a worker of iniquity. So what? God doesn't hate all workers of iniquity when he chose you? Can you have it both ways? I'd say not.
Yes sure....I don't deny his children weren't enemies before being reconciled. Doesn't mean he didn't love them beforehand.
Well again it's you which are pushing this doctrine that "love us" means ONLY the elect. That's by no means is any evidence you put down above. It just as equally can mean he's writing a letter there to Christians so of course he's going to say us.....John already said God so loved the WORLD but of course you seek to slam the door shut to that as being all of humanity from a salvation standpoint But you're left again with the dilemma of how God can LOVE you or give you love IF he hates ALL workers of iniquity. I'd suggest you should concede he can't therefore mean he actually hates such ones but it's using the word in a metonymy sense.
No they're not. But they were before he changed them! So tell me David, did God HATE you before he changed you? I mean if you dear Calvinists, or Reformers or whatever you want to call yourself to be are going to lambast other workers of iniquity and say God hates them because well....Psalm 5:5 declares he hates ALL workers of iniquity then that doesn't mean you too? Oh but God well....loves me you say! Well maybe he loves other people too and maybe just maybe you've got to understood how the word "hate" in metonymy is being used. To others readers I'd encourage you to give it some thought please.
Yes those are great scriptures above. But they have nothing, absolutely nothing to do with the subject under discussion. We're talking about does God hate sinners. You would claim total depravity for man and that by the way is likewise a term of absolute. (see my post 33) God according to you hates sinners so what changed his mind and said I'm not going to hate these sinners.....and yet his word say ALL WORKERS of iniquities, and God is a God who changes not! You do believe that don't you David? No offense but I'd suggest you should admit it....you're in a tough spot here trying to define God hates sinners in the way you say. It sure would be nice for someone within your group to at least acknowledge that a good point has been made.
Their sins are forgiven, their natures changed, and He does not hate them, for they are not workers of iniquity...they are doers of righteousness, even though they stumble into sins.
So again God did hate you before you got saved? Before your nature was changed? Or did you have something to do with changing your nature? You're insinuating he loves you only now because you've got a changed nature....you've said yourself because they are not workers of iniquity! Why don't you just admit it Dave. God loves everyone and "hates" people only in a metonymy way (see my post 33)
Yes I agree with that Dave, truly I do. But to every single member of humanity. May his blessing of salvation be to them too!
So, then we can say love means to hate less. God hated Jacob less than He did Esau.
We can play this game all day and 'splain away every verse in the bible.
Relax. I was simply asking for a pithy definition. Words have usage, context gives meaning. What does hate mean?
Rockson
Active Member
[Psa 5:5 NASB] 5 The boastful shall not stand before Your eyes; You hate all who do iniquity.
[Psa 15:4 NASB] 4 In whose eyes a reprobate is despised, But who honors those who fear the LORD; He swears to his own hurt and does not change;
Yes it does.
Ha...No my friend....It does not.
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