What are you thoughts about God hating the sinner?
Think of an answer - read this link: , then cast your vote
Think of an answer - read this link: , then cast your vote
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Does God hate the Sinner?
- Thread starter Salty
- Start date
I agree with Mark Driscoll. God hates the wicked. He is making a contrast between the saved and the unsaved.
The unsaved are wicked. The saved are loved and God sees them through Jesus. And as Driscoll said, His love is irrevocable.
And yet, there is a love that God has for all His creation and wants no one to perish.
The unsaved are wicked. The saved are loved and God sees them through Jesus. And as Driscoll said, His love is irrevocable.
And yet, there is a love that God has for all His creation and wants no one to perish.
The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination: How much more, when he bringeth it with a wicked mind! Pro 21:27
....but:
Blessed is the man whose sin the LORD does not count against him and in whose spirit is no deceit. Ps 32:2
Two totally different classes of sinner here.
This distinction is not made in the poll options.
....but:
Blessed is the man whose sin the LORD does not count against him and in whose spirit is no deceit. Ps 32:2
Two totally different classes of sinner here.
This distinction is not made in the poll options.
Yes. Even the saved sin. So does that mean that God stops loving us and starts hating us? God forbid.
God sees us (the saved) through Christ. He is our righteousness. God NEVER hates His children.
True, but they most certainly can incur His wrath here in this temporal realm; there's been many that have gone to heaven 'spanked'.
2 things:
1. Speaking of 2 classes of sinners...does God have ANY love toward those who are not and will never be saved?
2. I think Hebrews 12 (which talks about the father's discipline) shows that when a Christian gets "heaven-spanked", it is not to satisfy God's wrath and justice toward sin (that was taken care of at the cross). Rather, it is for our good, to teach and train us to be more like Christ. Otherwise God would be punishing us for sings supposedly already paid for on the cross.
Now, for the non-believer, I think we can understand earthly consequences of sin to be PART of the wrath of God toward their sin.
-andy
1. Speaking of 2 classes of sinners...does God have ANY love toward those who are not and will never be saved?
2. I think Hebrews 12 (which talks about the father's discipline) shows that when a Christian gets "heaven-spanked", it is not to satisfy God's wrath and justice toward sin (that was taken care of at the cross). Rather, it is for our good, to teach and train us to be more like Christ. Otherwise God would be punishing us for sings supposedly already paid for on the cross.
Now, for the non-believer, I think we can understand earthly consequences of sin to be PART of the wrath of God toward their sin.
-andy
I tend to see this akin to jesus asking us to "hate" parents...
That we need to have Jesus before ALL others, he is number 1 alliangence...
Similiar way, God "loves" His elected out ones with a personal/specific Love, while all others are in general sense "loved" by God...
So more like a Greater love extended towards the saved, more so than the lost!
Christians never incur God's "wrath", but they do incur His discipline. His wrath is saved for the wicked and unrepentant.
....and you say it with such assurity:
30 For we know him that said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Heb 10
Moses and Aaron, along with thousands of others of His children, perished in the wilderness, why?
Annanias and Saphira were struck down dead, why?
You think there were none of the Jerusalem Church that 'turned back in their hearts' to apostate Judaism and consequently perished in the wrath that came upon that generation?
You think that only the unregenerate perished in the flood of Noah? Or WW I or WW II or.........
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freeatlast
New Member
Yes according to scripture God hates those who do iniquity.
The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.
He also loves the world.
The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.
He also loves the world.
There's a verse (not sure where it is) that says "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated", or something like that. That sounds as though God does hate certain people, which is why I have always doubted He has any love for me. Yes, He saved me because of His promise, but I'm not convinced He loves me personally.
Yes I do, because I'm sure.
Do you think this is talking about believers? Are you afraid to fall into God's angry hands? Why? As believers, we should not be afraid! Christ has washed my sins away with His own blood. God will not show wrath toward me because Christ is my advocate. Jesus has saved me from God's wrath. He took it upon Himself.
These verses are talking about forsaking the faith and returning to the Law which cannot save. Anyone who does that surely will face God's wrath because they have rejected the only way out of it.
They didn't believe God. They were unrepentant unbelievers.
They lied to the Holy Spirit. As to whether or not they were saved is a topic for another thread. Not going there on this thread.
They were unbelievers. Unless you believe that you can lose your salvation.
Apples and apricots.
The flood was a judgment on mankind. Only 8 were found to be righteous. Were they perfect and sinless? No, they believed God.
Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness. Salvation has always been by grace, through faith. No faith=no salvation.
WW I & II? I'm sure many believers died in those wars, since all humans will die of something. But that's physical death not spiritual.
freeatlast
New Member
Hello Jon,
that is interesting. I have always questioned how God could love me but not that He does. I accept that He does because scripture says He does.
You are no different. He loves all of His elect even if we are un-loveable in our own minds.
Yes I do, because I'm sure.
Well be assured that in this case you're wrong.
Uh, it's from an epistle addressed to believers.
Amy, I'm sorry gal, but you're just flat out wrong here. As believers we're no different than they, and are capable of falling in the very same manners that they did:
...Be not highminded, but fear:for if God spared not the natural branches, neither will he spare thee. Ro 11:20,21
And if ye call on him as Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to each man`s work, pass the time of your sojourning in fear: 1 Peter 1:17
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. Gal 6:7
I mean, really, I could go on and on and on here; yes, I do know what Paul meant by work out your salvation with fear and trembling, because it's God that works within us. He's not mocked or lied to or to be taken lightly; He chastises His own in this world, the unregenerate has their's yet to come.
So, everything has been going perfectly tranquil, hunky dory and blissful in your life? No chastisements? Wow.....you must be sinless.
Yea, and back in the 4th chapter the writer is warning 'the brethren' to beware of an evil 'heart of unbelief' that would prevent them from entering into the sabbath rest.
Exactly, but they were also redeemed out of the land of bondage by the blood of the lamb; but that didn't keep them from having an evil heart of unbelief, which included Moses and Aaron:
As I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest. Heb 3:11
...As I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. Heb 4:3
OK; but I believe any one of His redeemed, born from above children could have done the same thing.
Yes, a child of God can most definitely lose their gospel (kingdom) salvation, but not their eternal salvation [see 1 Cor 5:5]. You haven't comprehended from Hebrews that His children can have hearts of unbelief, I gather.
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To kyredneck, two things:
1. I am still at at a loss for how and where you have discovered that there is a difference between "Gospel (kingdom) salvation" and "eternal Salvation." I have truly never ever heard anyone else who speaks about salvation(s) in this way.
2. Are you saying that Jesus' death on the cross was not sufficient to bear all of our sins, and that we have to pay some additional penalty ourselves?
-Andy
1. I am still at at a loss for how and where you have discovered that there is a difference between "Gospel (kingdom) salvation" and "eternal Salvation." I have truly never ever heard anyone else who speaks about salvation(s) in this way.
2. Are you saying that Jesus' death on the cross was not sufficient to bear all of our sins, and that we have to pay some additional penalty ourselves?
-Andy
quantumfaith
Active Member
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
It is the essence of God's nature....Love. "God is Love"
Ky, your whole post is so messed up I can't even begin to address it, nor do I have the time, but I did want to question you about this last statement.
What is the difference between "kingdom salvation" and "eternal salvation"? Is God's kingdom not eternal?
You never even bothered to peruse the link to the essay by Elder Goins that I provided you over on the other thread did you?
Go,take a long look at 1 Cor 5:5 and think about it. What had this man lost but still yet retained? This is at the very heart and core of the OSAS (perseverence of the saints) doctrine of the Baptist faith.
No, I'm saying no such thing.
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