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Does God HATE the Sinner?
- Thread starter Zaac
- Start date
The wrath of God is towards sinners outside of christ, would that be considered hatred?
Zaac
Well-Known Member
Wrath is wrath. I'm talking about HATE.
"The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity." Psalm 5:5 (Bolding mine.)
There are several other passages in psalms like this...It seems clear that God hates sinners...and also loves them, as many other passages attest.
If God says he hates workers of iniquity, I believe him. If God says he loves sinners, I believe him.
Since He clearly and repeatedly says both, I believe both.
Zaac
Well-Known Member
:thumbs: I think the confusion arises out of our human understanding of love and hate. It's difficult in our experiences of hate to comprehend how a Holy God or anyone can righteously hate.
thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
This article ...
http://www.mercifultruth.com/doesgodhate.html
... says it much better than I can, but it is way too long to post here. Therefore, please click and prayerfully read through it. It is an excellent treatise on just how misunderstood God's "hatred" is.
Suffice to say, if you believe God hates sinners, you don't understand God very well. God bless.
http://www.mercifultruth.com/doesgodhate.html
... says it much better than I can, but it is way too long to post here. Therefore, please click and prayerfully read through it. It is an excellent treatise on just how misunderstood God's "hatred" is.
Suffice to say, if you believe God hates sinners, you don't understand God very well. God bless.
Zaac
Well-Known Member
God is love therefore He must hate. If you love that which is right, true and good, you must hate that which is against it. The sin isn't against him, The people committing the sin are.
People , not sin, will be tossed into an eternal lake of fire.
Psalm 5:5 refutes the notion of loving the sinner and hating the sin as it speaks directly to God hating ALL who do iniquity. Not the iniquity, but the ALL who do the iniquity.
The boastful shall not stand before Your eyes;
You hate all who do iniquity.
Again, I think our first response is to confuse God's righteous hatred with the type of hatred that our flesh knows. But the response of a HOLY God is different than the way our flesh responds.
People , not sin, will be tossed into an eternal lake of fire.
Psalm 5:5 refutes the notion of loving the sinner and hating the sin as it speaks directly to God hating ALL who do iniquity. Not the iniquity, but the ALL who do the iniquity.
The boastful shall not stand before Your eyes;
You hate all who do iniquity.
Again, I think our first response is to confuse God's righteous hatred with the type of hatred that our flesh knows. But the response of a HOLY God is different than the way our flesh responds.
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thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
Then this must be wrong:
Romans 5, NASB
6 For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die.
8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
6 For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die.
8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
If He hates the sinner, why did He die for the sinner? Did He, in each of our own cases, suddenly (and irrationally, I might add) decide not to hate us? Or is it possible that compared to His love, His displeasure looks like hate?
God hated Esau, right? Are you sure? So why is it that, after 20 years away from his brother Esau, part of Jacob's blessing was to have the opportunity to bow seven times at his brother's feet?
Isaiah 55
8 "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways," declares the LORD.
9 "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.
8 "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways," declares the LORD.
9 "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.
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quantumfaith
Active Member
Excellent article "thisnumber" thanks for sharing.
The Archangel
Well-Known Member
David Platt: God hates the sin and the sinner...and loves the sinner
http://youtu.be/mqTWLut6lcg
The Archangel
http://youtu.be/mqTWLut6lcg
The Archangel
Zaac
Well-Known Member
Now I know that you don't think Scripture is wrong. :laugh: But dying for the sinner does not mean that He doesn't hate the worker of iniquity. It simply means that in His perfect righteousness He can hate the sinner while loving him enough to do that which would redeem him from that hate.
Contextually, taking the whole of Scripture, that particular Scripture is referencing God choosing the Israelites(Jacob) over the Edomites(Esau) as His chosen people.
See above reply.
Zaac
Well-Known Member
Beautiful explanation. I like the part where he talks about Jesus going to the Cross to stand in our place and He takes upon Himself God's wrath against us in our sin.
His hatred was exacted against HIS SON because of OUR sin. And if taking on our sin caused God to hate His SON to death, why would He not hate the sinner and the sin?
HisWitness
New Member
GREAT POST :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
Zaac
Well-Known Member
It's just one of those things that runs contrary to what folks want to believe because they've heard something else for so long. It's up there with the three wise men going to Jesus's manger when they actually visited a house.
But Scripture says what it says.
HisWitness
New Member
His Hatred ????????????????????????????????????????????
His Righteous Judgement (NOT HATRED)was upon his Son because of Adam's Sin friend--through 1 man (Adam) sin entered and Death by sin--ALL were made sinners by this 1 man(Adam).
Righteous Judgement and Hatred are NOT the same.
I am not saying that we didn't have sins or do not sin--I am saying what the scriptures teach that it was Adam's Sin that was paid for that plunged all mankind into sin--therefore our sins are paid for.
Did God kill David's baby (because of david's sin)because God HATED David ?
NO--David was a man after God's own heart--God loved David.
BUT God also Judges mankind in Righteousness---Does God do this because he HATES his own creation ????The whole purpose of God's judgement upon mankind is that he might correct his creation that he LOVES--and this appears to man as hatred the way man thinks of hatred.\
Zaac
Well-Known Member
I wasn't equating hatred and judgment. But as Christ took on our sin, God's righteous hatred was directed at Him as though He was the sinner.
Jesus stood in the place of sinners.
quantumfaith
Active Member
Zaac, are you one who believes at Christ's last moments on the cross that God
the Father "turned his back" on Christ due to the sins of the world?
Are you saying he Didn't? I have always heard it and read it this way. That Jesus drank the cup of Gods wrath (Ma 27:46). If you want to call that 'turning his back', I suppose you could. However Penal substitution atonement had to be fulfilled so that we might be made right with God through His sacrifice. no? The physical agony wasn't the only portion of the punishment for our crimes, God had to exact His divine judgment.
Carm has a good right up about it too.
http://carm.org/questions/about-jesus/why-did-jesus-cry-out-my-god-my-god-why-have-you-forsaken-me
just my few pennies.
Why I Won't Be Sucked Into This Argument!
....I have found that when Zaac posts a question, he has a hidden agenda, and all too often we never find out what that agenda is???
I dearly love Zaac and his propensity for the love of the Kingdom towards all mankind, but - and you know with my statement, there's going to be a "but" - but we see things differently, and this is one of those areas where he sees the field from the south, and I see it from the north.
There is one thing that I am sure of, we'll both enjoy the plush sensation of the green grass of that field under our feet when we cross over from this mere mortal life to eternal life with God! :thumbs:
....I have found that when Zaac posts a question, he has a hidden agenda, and all too often we never find out what that agenda is???
I dearly love Zaac and his propensity for the love of the Kingdom towards all mankind, but - and you know with my statement, there's going to be a "but" - but we see things differently, and this is one of those areas where he sees the field from the south, and I see it from the north.
There is one thing that I am sure of, we'll both enjoy the plush sensation of the green grass of that field under our feet when we cross over from this mere mortal life to eternal life with God! :thumbs:
quantumfaith
Active Member
Baptist JG, it is my conviction that Jesus is quoting Psalm 22....which is a "psalm of victory". I am not convinced at ALL that God the Father was "turning his back" on God the Son.