Does God Have "Free Will"?

[Pastor_Bob]

Tom, I am more than willing to be "enlightened" by someone who is passionate about his/her position while maintaining the right disposition. I give no audience to the "I'm right - you're wrong" attitude.

The will of a lost man is not "free." It is in bondage to the law of sin and death.

The will of the saved man is not "free." It is bound to the law of New Life in Christ.

It seems as if these folks were given a choice.

Joshua 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Proverbs 1:28 Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:
29 For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:

Isaiah 7:15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.
16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.

Isaiah 65:12 Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not.

 

[TCassidy]

It seems as if these folks were given a choice.

Yes. Lost people always choose wrong. That is their nature.

Joshua 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

Yes, saved people can choose to serve God. That is within their nature.

Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Yes, lost people always choose wrong. That is their nature.

Proverbs 1:28 Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:
29 For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:

Yes. Lost people always choose wrong. That is their nature.

16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.

Yes, the saved can choose to refuse evil and choose good. That is within their nature.

Isaiah 65:12 Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not

Yes, lost people always choose wrong. That is their nature.

Bob, thank you for posing these verses which prove my point. The lost, having only their old nature, always choose wrong. The saved, having both an old and new nature, can choose either.

But Bob, the very fact that you post verses dealing with people choosing proves you don't understand "free will." It has nothing to do with making choices. Everybody makes choices every day. It is the nature of the person making the choice that is at issue, not the fact they make choices.

 

[loDebar]

So He is Free to be absolutly Holy and Righteous, He is Free to do anything He wants to do, Free Will does not include things we do not want to do. That is illogical. That is not free at all, that is the opposite, maybe coercion or slavery

free will "the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion"

God has free will.

 

[JonShaff]

Yea, some of these responses do not make sense. Let's say i do not want to do something. Just because i do not want to do it does not mean i do not have free will. It's when i want to do something but cannot do it--that is what determines i do not have free will, right?

 

[TCassidy]

God has free will.

So, according to you God is free to sin?

 

[TCassidy]

Yea, some of these responses do not make sense. Let's say i do not want to do something. Just because i do not want to do it does not mean i do not have free will. It's when i want to do something but cannot do it--that is what determines i do not have free will, right?

The reasoning is a bit convoluted but essentially correct. A lost person cannot, due to his nature, be spiritual, or merit heaven on his own virtues. He may want to (for his own selfish reasons) but he is unable due to his sin nature.

 

[JonShaff]

So, according to you God is free to sin?

God does not desire to sin, and has the ability not to sin, so is this a non sequitur?

 

[TCassidy]

God does not desire to sin, and has the ability not to sin, so is this a non sequitur?

No. It is a question directed at the concept that "free will" means the ability to act outside a persons moral nature.

 

[JonShaff]

No. It is a question directed at the concept that "free will" means the ability to act outside a persons moral nature.

But like i said, If someone does not want to and has the ability not to, the question of "Is he able to" is a non sequitur.

 

[thatbrian]

Yes.

Daniel 2:21 And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:

Daniel 4:17 This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.

Daniel 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Psalms 75:7 But God is the judge: he putteth down one, and setteth up another.

Jeremiah 27:5 I have made the earth, the man and the beast that are upon the ground, by my great power and by my outstretched arm, and have given it unto whom it seemed meet unto me.

Can God lie?

 

[utilyan]

The reasoning is a bit convoluted but essentially correct. A lost person cannot, due to his nature, be spiritual, or merit heaven on his own virtues. He may want to (for his own selfish reasons) but he is unable due to his sin nature.

Luke 10

25And a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”26And He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?” 27And he answered, “YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.” 28And He said to him, “You have answered correctly; DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE.” 29But wishing to justify himself, he said to Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”

The Good Samaritan

30Jesus replied and said, “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among robbers, and they stripped him and beat him, and went away leaving him half dead. 31“And by chance a priest was going down on that road, and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. 32“Likewise a Levite also, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33“But a Samaritan, who was on a journey, came upon him; and when he saw him, he felt compassion, 34and came to him and bandaged up his wounds, pouring oil and wine on them; and he put him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35“On the next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper and said, ‘Take care of him; and whatever more you spend, when I return I will repay you.’ 36“Which of these three do you think proved to be a neighbor to the man who fell into the robbers’ hands?” 37And he said, “The one who showed mercy toward him.” Then Jesus said to him, “Go and do the same.”


So this is not the Good Samaritan, it is the Evil Samaritan?

"A lost person cannot, due to his nature, be spiritual, or merit heaven on his own virtues. He may want to (for his own selfish reasons) but he is unable due to his sin nature."

When presented to give an example of LOVING GOD and LOVING NEIGHBOR, Jesus Christ offers the Good Samaritan. He even tells his audience GO and DO the SAME.

Calvinist Jesus Would not have done this and would have harped on the capacity rested on those chosen of same religion.

Calvinist are merely trying to push the exact same sentiment the Lawyer had "who is my neighbor?" and applying it exclusively to only those who are Calvinist.

To a Calvinist there is absolutely NO SUCH THING as a Good Samaritan.

 

[thatbrian]

But like i said, If someone does not want to and has the ability not to, the question of "Is he able to" is a non sequitur.

You think that unregenerate sinners can act in manner pleasing to God, right?

 

[JonShaff]

You think that unregenerate sinners can act in manner pleasing to God, right?

Where did i say that?

 

[JonShaff]

Can God lie?

He has no reason to lie--He does not want to--the better question is, is there anything stopping Him from telling the truth?

 

[thatbrian]

He has no reason to lie--He does not want to--the better question is, is there anything stopping Him from telling the truth?

You are answering questions I didn't ask. Can God lie? Does He have the ability to lie?

 

[thatbrian]

Where did i say that?

All over BB.

 

[JonShaff]

All over BB.

LOL--i'd like to see just one post mi amigo

 

[JonShaff]

You are answering questions I didn't ask. Can God lie? Does He have the ability to lie?

But who says that is what determines free will?

 

[thatbrian]

But who says that is what determines free will?

You.

 

[Yeshua1]

If we go with the typical Evangelical (Arminian/Semi-Pelagian) version of free will, can we say of God that He has "free will"?

He alone has real free will, as there is nothing hindering/restrictive Him having His will to get done...
And unlike us, His will is always perfect and true, ashe cannot contradict Hos own nature!