Does God Have "Free Will"?

[thatbrian]

Why does free will include doing what you do not want to do? That's called doing something *against your will*

Yes. It is, and that is the point.

Unregenerate men do not want to come to God because he is at war with God. "For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot." (Romans 8:7)

Many don't see unregenerate men as enemies of God, but I think there is plenty of biblical evidence in favor of that idea. For example:

"For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life." (Romans​

[1] And you were dead in the trespasses and sins [2] in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—[3] among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. [4] But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, [5] even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—[6] and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, [7] so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. [8] For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast. (Ephesians 2:1–9 ESV)​

 

[The Archangel]

On The Freedom of God:

In His proclamation to Moses in Exodus 33:19, God gives some information about what it is for Him to be God. In saying, “ I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy,” (Exodus 33:19 ESV) God is declaring His freedom to be Himself.

He chooses to be gracious and merciful to Moses (and, perhaps, Israel) because He has freely decided to do so. God is absolutely free in a way we cannot imagine. He is bound only by His nature (ie. He cannot lie) and His promises (His promises must be fulfilled). He is not “required” to respond to anyone. There is no one in the entire universe who can rightly question God. God is not subject to anyone--ever. Period. Even when He must fulfill His promises, He is subject to Himself, not an outside person or reality.

God’s freedom demonstrates that He is always the Creator and man is always the creature. The creature is never free of the Creator’s universe (its natural laws, its Creator-given rules, etc.), therefore the creature is never really “free” in a total sense because he or she is subject to something outside himself or herself. Only the Creator can be totally free because it is His universe and He controls it and is not subject to it.

Blessings,

The Archangel

 

[utilyan]

Yes. It is, and that is the point.

Unregenerate men do not want to come to God because he is at war with God. "For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot." (Romans 8:7)

Many don't see unregenerate men as enemies of God, but I think there is plenty of biblical evidence in favor of that idea. For example:

"For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life." (Romans​

[1] And you were dead in the trespasses and sins [2] in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—[3] among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. [4] But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, [5] even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—[6] and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, [7] so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. [8] For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast. (Ephesians 2:1–9 ESV)​

The #1 giveaway someone is a Reprobate is they call themselves Elect and others Reprobates.




Actual total depravity wouldn't care to war with God. You would deal more with a great apathy rather then a hatred. Hatred is too CARING.

Hatred wants attention, you know. They will run you over the car when they see you and they very much care about what you think of them, its very social.


Apathy.....the opposite of love......Doesn't give a rats patoot about anything.23But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better; 24yet to remain on in the flesh is more necessary for your sake. It would laugh its way into hell just as bad as heaven.

 

[agedman]

The #1 giveaway someone is a Reprobate is they call themselves Elect and others Reprobates.




Actual total depravity wouldn't care to war with God. You would deal more with a great apathy rather then a hatred. Hatred is too CARING.

Hatred wants attention, you know. They will run you over the car when they see you and they very much care about what you think of them, its very social.


Apathy.....the opposite of love......Doesn't give a rats patoot about anything.23But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better; 24yet to remain on in the flesh is more necessary for your sake. It would laugh its way into hell just as bad as heaven.

Your working from a false premis and failed view when stating that apathy is the opposite of love.

Apathy is the opposite of caring. The opposite of total love is total abhorrence.

The apathy and the abhorrence may be simultaneously expressed, and may be enlarged in various areas, but one is not the other.

For example:
The typical “Freedom From Religion Foundation” is not merely apathetically inclined toward believer’s expressions of religeon, rather their abhorrence drives them to action to remove all things Godly.

 

[Pastor_Bob]

Do I really have to convince you of God's attributes?

Strawman....

It's fine if you have no answer to the issue.

 

[thatbrian]

Strawman....

It's fine if you have no answer to the issue.

How about this: Is God is omnipresent?

 

[Pastor_Bob]

How about this: Is God is omnipresent?

Absolutely. He is also omnipotent and omniscient.

The issue that you seem to have avoided above I have copied here for our convenience.

Although a key attribute of God is His omniscience, He (God the Son) appears to have acted outside of His nature and limited His knowledge on at least one occasion.
Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

So, while we certainly believe that God possesses all of the above attributes, we believe that He is still God and can do as He wills - even if it is beyond our logic and ability to comprehend.

 

[thatbrian]

Absolutely. He is also omnipotent and omniscient.

The issue that you seem to have avoided above I have copied here for our convenience.



So, while we certainly believe that God possesses all of the above attributes, we believe that He is still God and can do as He wills - even if it is beyond our logic and ability to comprehend.

We are speaking of God the Father, not Christ. Is there anywhere where God the Father is not?

Can God sin?

 

[Pastor_Bob]

We are speaking of God the Father, not Christ.

I apologize. I assumed you believed in the deity of Christ.

Is there anywhere where God the Father is not?

We are speaking now of omniscience, not omnipresence. See my post above dealing with omnipresence.

Can God sin?

God is impeccable.

 

[thatbrian]

I apologize. I assumed you believed in the deity of Christ.


We are speaking now of omniscience, not omnipresence. See my post above dealing with omnipresence.


God is impeccable.

Sarcasm aside, Christ voluntarily limited Himself. In think we are agree on that.

God knowing all being omnipresent are two different matters. We are speaking of the latter.

Is there a corner in the universe that you imagine Him not? Where can you hide from God?

 

[Yeshua1]

When God the Son became Jesus, was all of Him in Jesus, or was He also present in heaven also?
Had someone ask me that before!

 

[Pastor_Bob]

Christ voluntarily limited Himself.

Do you mean that He exercised His free will when He voluntarily limited Himself?

Is there a corner in the universe that you imagine Him not? Where can you hide from God?

After considering all of the passages posted here, I am going to concede this point. Although I believe that God certainly could remove His presence from anywhere He may choose, I do not think that He would.

 

[thatbrian]

Do you mean that He exercised His free will when He voluntarily limited Himself?

That all depends on how one defines the term.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

If we go with the typical Evangelical (Arminian/Semi-Pelagian) version of free will, can we say of God that He has "free will"?

Dan 4:35 KJV And all the inhabitants of the earth [are] reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and [among] the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

 

[thatbrian]

Dan 4:35 KJV And all the inhabitants of the earth [are] reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and [among] the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Can God lie?

 

[atpollard]

Answer this question and you'll get your answer
Can God make a stone so heavy he can't lift it?

Rob

No. God can do anything that is possible, but not things that by definition are impossible. God cannot create a a triangle with four sides because a triangle, by definition has three sides. If it had four sides, it would not be a triangle.

So, did you ever answer the question about whether God has free will? (I just started reading the thread).

 

[atpollard]

If we go with the typical Evangelical (Arminian/Semi-Pelagian) version of free will, can we say of God that He has "free will"?

No, not by THAT definition of Free Will. God cannot choose to do evil because that would be God acting contrary to His nature which would make him ‘not-God’. God cannot stop being God (Holy).