Does God HAVE To be "fair" In His Dealings With man?

[JesusFan]

True.

Actually he shows mercy to all.

"For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all." - Romans 11:32

"The wonder of God's mercy and grace is NOT that He doesn't save everyone; it is that He even saves ANYONE!"

This is the very essence of what I believe, even as a non-Calvinist. God is not in any way morally obligated to save anyone because we deserve it. Again, this is a point upon which we can all agree.

However, God has obligated Himself, both morally and judicially, to save whosoever will come (believe). Not because they deserve it, but because He sent forth His Son to be a propitiation for sins of whole world, which is to be applied only through faith. His universal call to "every creature" to faith and repentance obligates him to save whosoever repents and believes. The doctrine that teaches that God only grants this ability to willingly repent and believe to a select few while appearing to call "every creature" is what causes the non-Calvinists to cry, "Foul!"

I don't believe the Calvinistic view of God is unjust because he condemns certain people to hell. I believe the Calvinistic view of God is unjust because He offers a pardon to all mankind while only granted a few of them the ability to receive it, all the while expressing a desire for all to come to repentance and a frustration for those who remain unwilling.

It is deceptive to offer someone a gift you've determined they cannot willingly receive. Especially if you, the giver, are the one who determines the receivers natural abilities. That type of offer cannot be genuine.

You again are making manmade assumptions regarding this doctrine of Divine Election/salvation though!

did God morally obigate Himself to have salvation offered unto All in the Cross, IF jesus actually died to secure the sin debt for those whom God had chosen in him to be saved?

Did God ythrough Cross of Christ really reconcile all creation back to himself?

IF yes, than All will indeed be saved eventually, as jesus died for sins of all, and God is the One bring the reconcilliation...

Do you hold to Universalism than?

Know you dont, so we have to agree that reconcialation/atonement cannot be really secured for ALL peoples!

You also seem to deem it unfair that God would "by pass" some, blaming them for rejecting jesus, in their "God caused blindess"

Sinners willing reject jesus, and they are still obligated to Him even if not heard of jesus, due to being sinners itself!

Fault Adam for that, not God!

might want to check up on Karl barth, his dual theology of God judging us all as being sinners in adam, but he also had Jesus pay the price owed for all, jesus being both election for sinners and saints, as in that scenerio, at least have reconcialation/salvation for All!

 

[preacher4truth]

You again are making manmade assumptions regarding this doctrine of Divine Election/salvation though!

Yes he is. Philosophy.

 

[Skandelon]

You again are making manmade assumptions regarding this doctrine of Divine Election/salvation though!

Just so you understand, any statement that is not a direct quote of God (i.e. scripture), can be deemed as "man-made," including claims made by Calvinistic MEN.

Did God ythrough Cross of Christ really reconcile all creation back to himself?

As discussed before, He provided the means by which anyone, through faith, can be reconciled to God, which is what makes His appeal genuine. If the provision is not there then the appeal cannot be sincere.

Can you sincerely tell your child that you have a gift for them if they will only come and get it, when indeed you have not purchased them a gift? You could, but it would be a lie. God cannot lie, so when He makes an appeal to 'every creature' then I believe he has made provision for 'every creature.' To assume otherwise is biblically unfounded.

IF yes, than All will indeed be saved eventually, as jesus died for sins of all, and God is the One bring the reconcilliation...

Do you hold to Universalism than?

You are forgetting the condition of faith. Did the snake raised in the dessert cure everyone's bites automatically, or were they required to gaze upon it in faith that it would heal? Likewise, we must gaze upon Christ in faith for the atoning provision to be applied. But to speculate that the provision is only been made for a select few while God is making an appeal to all is unfounded. I would think an four pointer, like yourself, would already believe that.

 

[JesusFan]

Just so you understand, any statement that is not a direct quote of God (i.e. scripture), can be deemed as "man-made," including claims made by Calvinistic MEN.

As discussed before, He provided the means by which anyone, through faith, can be reconciled to God, which is what makes His appeal genuine. If the provision is not there then the appeal cannot be sincere.

Can you sincerely tell your child that you have a gift for them if they will only come and get it, when indeed you have not purchased them a gift? You could, but it would be a lie. God cannot lie, so when He makes an appeal to 'every creature' then I believe he has made provision for 'every creature.' To assume otherwise is biblically unfounded.

You are forgetting the condition of faith. Did the snake raised in the dessert cure everyone's bites automatically, or were they required to gaze upon it in faith that it would heal? Likewise, we must gaze upon Christ in faith for the atoning provision to be applied. But to speculate that the provision is only been made for a select few while God is making an appeal to all is unfounded. I would think an four pointer, like yourself, would already believe that.

Being the resident '4 pointer" here on the BB, that is where i would say that the condition to appropiate the Grace of God provided by the atonement of the Cross is faith in jesus, but that cannot be met by sinners, so God supplies that needed faith to the elect in Christ!

Jesus indeed did die as payment in full for all men( 4 pointer], but ONLY those who are able to have faith in him have it effectually applied to them [Cal part]