...and Christ stated He and the Father are one. No matter how many layers you want to divide the God-head into you will still fail every time.
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Does God Learn?
- Thread starter mandym
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...and Christ stated He and the Father are one. No matter how many layers you want to divide the God-head into you will still fail every time.
Jesus "emptied Himself" through the kenosis of the Incarnation. Jesus gave up exercising "Perfect Knowledge" as the incarnate Son of Man. I have no problem with Jesus as a man "increas[ing] in wisdom" and not knowing the day or the hour of His second return (while on earth).
This provides no support that the pleroma tes theotetos can lack knowledge that His own created ontological beings generate anew ex nihilo and contribute to His own, making "perfect knowledge" grow.
Ecc 2:26a For God giveth to a man that is good in his sight wisdom, and knowledge, and joy:
God gives man wisdom and knowledge. Wisdom and knowledge come from God because He is the Creator.
Rom 11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
Rom 11:35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
Did not Moses counsel God not to destroy the Israelites in the wilderness? It would seem that way, except that God would be a liar concerning His promises if He did. No, God was testing Moses' discernment and faith. Sure, God was angry, but He was not about to break His promises if Moses just said "Sure, God. They have been a major headache to me too!"
Isa 40:3 Who hath directed the Spirit of the Lord, or being his counsellor hath taught him?
Isa 40:14 With whom took he counsel, and who instructed him, and taught him in the path of judgment, and taught him knowledge, and shewed to him the way of understanding?
Isa 40:15 Behold, the nations are as a drop of a bucket, and are counted as the small dust of the balance: behold, he taketh up the isles as a very little thing.
Isa 40:16 And Lebanon is not sufficient to burn, nor the beasts thereof sufficient for a burnt offering.
Isa 40:17 All nations before him are as nothing; and they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
Isa 40:18 To whom then will ye liken God? or what likeness will ye compare unto him?
All these rhetorical questions make clear to me that a creature of God does not generate new knowledge ex nihilo to add to the "pool" of God's "perfect knowledge," and thereby increase it.
No one can be God's counselor.
No one can teach God in the path of judgment (discernment).
No one can teach God knowledge.
The doctrine of God comes from these (and many other) clear statements from God, describing His nature. It is foolish to derive doctrine about the nature of God from narrative passages and miss the purpose underlying the words that God says to people there. When God asked Adam "Where are you?" He was testing Adam, not inquiring to obtain information. Otherwise, God would be lacking in present knowledge.
As far as God "searching" the heart, how long does it take God to do this? Is God constantly lacking knowledge about the present condition of people's hearts and has to engage in "fishing expeditions" to update His knowledge? No, this is clearly a figure of speech--an understatement--to emphasize God's active involvement in the affairs of our thought lives. The point is that His knowledge of our hearts is not just staticly "sitting on the shelf," God is attentive in the matter of our very hearts.
This provides no support that the pleroma tes theotetos can lack knowledge that His own created ontological beings generate anew ex nihilo and contribute to His own, making "perfect knowledge" grow.
Ecc 2:26a For God giveth to a man that is good in his sight wisdom, and knowledge, and joy:
God gives man wisdom and knowledge. Wisdom and knowledge come from God because He is the Creator.
Rom 11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
Rom 11:35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
Did not Moses counsel God not to destroy the Israelites in the wilderness? It would seem that way, except that God would be a liar concerning His promises if He did. No, God was testing Moses' discernment and faith. Sure, God was angry, but He was not about to break His promises if Moses just said "Sure, God. They have been a major headache to me too!"
Isa 40:3 Who hath directed the Spirit of the Lord, or being his counsellor hath taught him?
Isa 40:14 With whom took he counsel, and who instructed him, and taught him in the path of judgment, and taught him knowledge, and shewed to him the way of understanding?
Isa 40:15 Behold, the nations are as a drop of a bucket, and are counted as the small dust of the balance: behold, he taketh up the isles as a very little thing.
Isa 40:16 And Lebanon is not sufficient to burn, nor the beasts thereof sufficient for a burnt offering.
Isa 40:17 All nations before him are as nothing; and they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
Isa 40:18 To whom then will ye liken God? or what likeness will ye compare unto him?
All these rhetorical questions make clear to me that a creature of God does not generate new knowledge ex nihilo to add to the "pool" of God's "perfect knowledge," and thereby increase it.
No one can be God's counselor.
No one can teach God in the path of judgment (discernment).
No one can teach God knowledge.
The doctrine of God comes from these (and many other) clear statements from God, describing His nature. It is foolish to derive doctrine about the nature of God from narrative passages and miss the purpose underlying the words that God says to people there. When God asked Adam "Where are you?" He was testing Adam, not inquiring to obtain information. Otherwise, God would be lacking in present knowledge.
As far as God "searching" the heart, how long does it take God to do this? Is God constantly lacking knowledge about the present condition of people's hearts and has to engage in "fishing expeditions" to update His knowledge? No, this is clearly a figure of speech--an understatement--to emphasize God's active involvement in the affairs of our thought lives. The point is that His knowledge of our hearts is not just staticly "sitting on the shelf," God is attentive in the matter of our very hearts.
Jesus and the Father are both God. but Jesus is not the Father.
The Father is God, Jesus is God and the Spirit is God.
One God
Jesus is not the Father. The Father is not the Son. The Son is not the Spirit....
No, I'm simply stating what that Bible teaches and that's God knows everything. The Bible teaches that over and over again. You try to take something difficult(Jesus being one person but two natures) and try to understand that with God knowing everything. We don't fully understand how Jesus could be one person but two distinct natures. So while Jesus would be omniscient, he did have a human nature which would be...human. He had to learn how to do things. He had pain. He died. God is not physical and is eternal and doesn't die. It's difficult to understand. We have nothing to compare it to. It's truly unique. The fact that the Father knows means that God knows. So no one yet can show one thing that God doesn't know.
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Well said! :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
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