Does God love people in hell?

[Osage Bluestem]

So, what's he patient and long-suffering for? What is he waiting on, Himself?

It makes little since for God to patiently wait for a man who can only come when God effectually draws him. I guess God is patient with himself.

Because God has predestined everything that will be carried out to be carried out for his purpose.

Everything works together in the end for God's glory.

 

[Osage Bluestem]

I like to hear more about this I thought I heard reformers say Baptist was after the reformation or from it.

They were called ana baptists at the time. There were also Waldensens that people claim were like us.

 

[psalms109:31]

Origin

They were called ana baptists at the time. There were also Waldensens that people claim were like us.

I was taught the origin came from Peter or right down from John the Baptist. I heard from a reformed that the origin is from the reformation, they went through a lot to show how. You probably will have to discuss this on the History board or maybe an old one is on there. This is not the OP, I am sorry Skandelon

 

[Osage Bluestem]

I was taught the origin came from Peter or right down from John the Baptist. I heard from a reformed that the origin is from the reformation, they went through a lot to show how. You probably will have to discuss this on the History board or maybe an old one is on there. This is not the OP, I am sorry Skandelon

History says that a guy named John Smyth started baptist branch. BUt there were people who believed very similar things already existing before that. I'm not a Landmarkist though.

 

[Osage Bluestem]

But the fact that you don't even affirm his love for non-elect while on earth, (as do the reformers mentioned in MacArthur's article) proves your inconsistency with historical reformed views on the subject of God's love for the reprobate whether in hell yet or not, and considering that the Reformers mantra is that "God does not change" its interesting to suggest that Reformers believed that God does love a reprobate pre-death but not post-death, is that what you think they believe?

I have never read any reformer who said God loves people in hell. All affirm common grace. No one says God loves people in hell. Using the word love to describe common grace I believe is simply a mistake. Unless one speaks only of the love God has for the remnant of his image. However, that is indeed not the same as love for the individual and who they are but where they came from and what they are made of.

God loves the elect as children and heirs. He does not love the reprobate in any way that can accuratley be described as real love. He simply gives the grace to live for a little while to fulfill the purpose they were made to fulfill.

 

[psalms109:31]

scripture

History says that a guy named John Smyth started baptist branch. BUt there were people who believed very similar things already existing before that. I'm not a Landmarkist though.

I am sorry this is your OP I was derailing I am sorry. Just like me I try not to worry about things that can not change.


Luke 16:
27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

 

[Alcott]

He was patient and longsuffering toward them, not wanting any to perish but all to come to repentance. That is a display of love, but love doesn't negate judgement for those who refuse his appeal to believe and be saved, does it?

Are you arguing that God loved them for a time but once they died he stopped? I'm not sure this is incorrect, it just doesn't seem consistent with the biblical understanding of "love" to me.

You did not answer my request to define love within the concept of "loving those in hell." We are not in conflict as to whether He wants all to come to repentance, but when they see the throne of judgment-- entirely consistent with the biblical definition of faith-- it's no longer unseen, so cannot be hoped for as unseen; ergo they cannot come to God in faith. So the question, then, is: does God love even those who did not come to him in faith. If He does, eternal torment is an odd kind of "love," and does contradict the biblcal description that love-- and faith-- spur actions of benefit, not harm.

 

[MB]

So you believe he loved them once, but now doesn't love them? How is that consistent with the biblical view of love that does not end?

It's simple. If they are separated from the Love of God they no longer have His Love. His Love was rejected. Why waste Love on someone who rejects you? Not to mention can God punish someone for ever and still Love them. They are never forgiven once they reach hell. That doesn't sound like it's Love anymore to me.
MB

 

[Jarthur001]

Reformed theologian Thomas Goodwin, Exposition of Ephesians:



Any ideas what this Reformed theologian means by "all Attributes"?

It is clear what he means when you read it in context...

See link for context
LINK

 

[Jerome]

Indeed.

I too am puzzled by B.O.'s attempt to morph "all attributes" into "perfect":

Reformed theologian Thomas Goodwin:

God is Love, and in Heaven all Attributes appear in Love: So Hell is nothing else, but all Attributes appearing in Wrath

I think he means that in contrast to the perfect love for the elect manifest in heaven a perfect hatred for the reprobate is manifest in hell.

Because here is how Goodwin used "all attributes" elsewhere in that work:

all the attributes that are in God, all his wisdom, all his truth, all his very justice itself

[Love] hath set on work all attributes, mercy, justice, power, wisdom, wrath itself

All the attributes in God are subjected to his love, and that is the great prevailing attribute that sways all.

what way love goes, all attributes else go, mercy and power, &c.

Love, it is of all attributes the most commanding

all attributes do but subserve love and mercy

in God, though there be power, and justice, and all attributes in him, yet they all have a tincture of lovingkingness

Reformed theologian Thomas Goodwin:

God is Love, and in Heaven all Attributes appear in Love: So Hell is nothing else, but all Attributes appearing in Wrath

 

[Jarthur001]

Indeed.

I too am puzzled by B.O.'s attempt to morph "all attributes" into "perfect":

Here is the idea behind Gods wrath

I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one like a son of man with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand.

Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, “Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.”

So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested.

Another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. Still another angel, who had charge of the fire, came from the altar and called in a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle,




“Take your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth’s vine, because its grapes are ripe.”



The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath.



They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses’ bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia.


This is a picnic when you think of hell.


How about the ones he loves? Does he kill them too?


JOHN 15:13 NKJ
13 "Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends.



No, he dies for his friends.

 

[Osage Bluestem]

JOHN 15:13 NKJ
13 "Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends.



No, he dies for his friends.

He died for his friends. He saved his friends from sin and death and gave them life.

Good call.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Jesus: "Every one the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the ones who come to Me I will never drive away. (I have come down from heaven not to do My will but to do the will of Him who sent Me.) And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I will lose none of all that He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day."