No, it's not Universalism. It's Pelagianism.
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Does God love the lost?
- Thread starter SheepWhisperer
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Oh no the big bad pelagnianism monster rises its head again.
Re-read what Agent47 wrote. Perhaps you'll figure out my comment and find some humor.
SheepWhisperer
Active Member
No sir, that is wrong too. "Pelagianism" says that man is morally good and that he chooses to do good of his own will. That's totally unbiblical.
The Bible teaches that a man must be drawn (same as "wooed") by the Holy Spirit who deals with his sin, God's righteousness, and the judgment of Hell. You have to realize that you're a sinner, on your way to Hell and with that knowledge, choose Jesus as your only hope. If you don't you will burn in Hell forever. THAT, my friend is neither "universalism" nor "pelagianism" nor Calvinism
SheepWhisperer
Active Member
We're discussing the love of God and men who are going to Hell. I don't see any humor in any of this subject.
LOL, lighten up, Alice, God is in Sovereign control. You and I are not going to win or lose souls by our brilliance or stupidity.
Which is exactly what the paragraph you posted says, "only those who CHOOSE to believe on Him, of their own CHOICE." Not through the drawing of the Father. Not through the convicting ministry of the Holy Spirit, but "of their own."
Yes, but that is the exact opposite of what the paragraph you quoted says.
We are drawn by the cross of Christ through the preaching of the gospel. John 12:32 Romans 10:17
Therefore everyone single person is drawn of God in an equal manner and has an equal opportunity to choose salvation or reject it. Matthew 19:22
Therefore everyone single person is drawn of God in an equal manner and has an equal opportunity to choose salvation or reject it. Matthew 19:22
We don't know that.
We don't know whether the "rich young ruler" came to Christ at a later date.
I have even read blurbs that wonder if the rich young ruler was Paul or John the apostle.
HankD
Or maybe it was Elvis!
Paul is a remote possibility although he was never rich nor a ruler.
But John followed Jesus from the time he was 15 years old, and had been a humble fisherman prior to that. Hardly a "rich young ruler."
(PS: I'm still holding out for Elvis!)
With God all things are possible.Or maybe it was Elvis!
Paul is a remote possibility although he was never rich nor a ruler.
But John followed Jesus from the time he was 15 years old, and had been a humble fisherman prior to that. Hardly a "rich young ruler."
(PS: I'm still holding out for Elvis!)
HankD
This is a "problem" passage for those who do indeed preach/teach that Christ died only for the elect:
2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
Here are false prophets headed for destruction yet the LORD "bought - root: agorazo" them.
agorazo 00061 UBS - buy, redeem, ransom.
The easiest explanation (if I were of C persuasion) is the following:
Proverbs 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
On that last day (the one followed by the first day of eternity) - ALL are the LORD's. All will glorify Him.
Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
HankD
2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
Here are false prophets headed for destruction yet the LORD "bought - root: agorazo" them.
agorazo 00061 UBS - buy, redeem, ransom.
The easiest explanation (if I were of C persuasion) is the following:
Proverbs 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
On that last day (the one followed by the first day of eternity) - ALL are the LORD's. All will glorify Him.
Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
HankD
I really don't see why you consider this a problem for those of us who believe in Particular Redemption.
His Sacrifice was "sufficient for all efficient only for believers." His Sacrifice was sufficient to atone for every sin of ever person who ever lived, lives, or will live.
It is only the application that is restricted to believers.
Besides, in the context Peter is saying that human masters bought slaves and the slaves owed their master their allegiance as their lord.
Peter is saying, using sarcasm, that the analogical application applies to those who claim allegiance to Christ but deny Him as Lord are just like those slaves who were bought by the master but refused to give him allegiance and obedience.
The cross Jesus was nailed to has rotted away in Palestine by now.
We are adopted by God at the time of God's choosing.
God does not draw everyone. God is not like a big huge black hole sucking everything in his path and only those strong enough to get out of his pull go to hell. Your teaching is entirely non-biblical and false.
Again, I pray that you are not a pastor or teacher in a local church. Many will be lead astray by your false contentions.
SW,
It is true that while there is life there is hope from our point of view.
From God's revealed will it is already settled.
Your Caricature of Calvinist beliefs will not get it done.
A limited few is not Calvinst Covenant thought....can you count the stars of the heavens, or the sand of the sea... as it is a"select few"....when you get finished counting the few...get back to us.
Or maybe it was Elvis!
Paul is a remote possibility although he was never rich nor a ruler.
But John followed Jesus from the time he was 15 years old, and had been a humble fisherman prior to that. Hardly a "rich young ruler."
(PS: I'm still holding out for Elvis!)
I think it could have been Mark and is the reason Mark added in his account: Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him,
God's love for sinners is found only "in Christ" while outside of Christ the wrath of God is presently abiding over all unbelievers (Jn. 3:36). God's love for all mankind was squandered in the garden by the whole human race existing in one man - Adam. Universal condemnation was the result and Gehenna was the just destiny for all mankind. So justice has been served by condemnation unto everlasting punishment which is divine just hatred of sinners and their sins. Salvation of any condemned sinner is a matter of mercy, not justice. Mercy cannot be demanded by any nor deserved by any. God's love for sinners is manifest in his mercy while his wrath is served by his justice. Election is of grace - unmerited and is the act of particular mercy "I will have mercy upon whom I will have mercy.
I am not God nor the dispenser of either justice or mercy. I do not know who the elect are. I preach the gospel to all men knowing the gospel will come in power and in the Spirit and much assurance to them. I love my enemies, but not in the same sense I do my friends. I love my friends but not in the same sense I love my family. I love my family but not in the same sense I love my wife. I love my wife but not in the same sense I love God.
I am not God nor the dispenser of either justice or mercy. I do not know who the elect are. I preach the gospel to all men knowing the gospel will come in power and in the Spirit and much assurance to them. I love my enemies, but not in the same sense I do my friends. I love my friends but not in the same sense I love my family. I love my family but not in the same sense I love my wife. I love my wife but not in the same sense I love God.
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