Does God love the non-elect?

"...nor am I concerned with your welfare. God is Sovereign it is for Him to decide regardless of me. I obey Him. Love is not a feeling it an act of the will. Cold I am. Love is cold, it is to decide to do good to another." then you lack the love of Christ and I don't consider you a brother.

By the way...who said anything about believing I can fall away? I believe in eternal security.

Noone said anything about self-righteousness either. God commands us to work out our salvation (sanctification). He does not want us to be lazy.

Rest has to do with salvation, not sanctification.

 

"He loves me and is conforming me into the likeness of His Son why, are you saying He is too slow or something?"

You're saying He is excusing your sin? Your pride?

Nice try son, asking me if I think He is too slow or something. You are the one in error here. How fast or how slow He goes does not excuse your sin. You are making a mockery of God...

 

The Calvinists go around in circles. They simply cannot support their view of election, from the Bible. You ask them, why did God chose some, and reject or pass by the others? They will give you their set response, because God chose us for His glory. What a cop out, what arrognace, what a distortion of Scripture. They then have the face to tell the whole world without exception, that God nonetheless loves them, and has asked us to preach the Gospel to you, even though the greater majority of you will be going to hell, simply because you are not part of the elect, mate! So sorry about this. Calvinistic doctrine of election is the most arrogant, unbiblical, anti God's love view of Who God really is.

Further, Calvinists are guilty or being dishonest in their dealing of the Word of God. When it suits their theological nonsense, they will adapt the meanings of the English and Greek language, because what the dictionaries tell them, it not what they want to hear. Like Paul said, their ears need to be tickeled, because they will not accept the plain teachings of the Bible.

Its quite shameful, that the likes of Larry and JohnP, come one this Board, and tell us, yes, the Gospel is indeed for everyone, but then argue that only a slect, elite few, will ever be saved. This is what is called, double-talk! Its a real disgrace!

 

Yes, that is exactly what the Bible, and therefore Calvinism, teaches. In CAlvinism, man is kept from God by nothing but his own sin. He willfully rejects Christ because of his love for sin.

The Bible declares that God hates sinners. So it sounds to me like the Calvinists are correct.

Then you were a sinful Calvinist (as we all are), but particularly so by the sin of believing something false, as well as the sin of pride in being an elitist. The best option would have been to maintain the biblical teaching while rejecting the sinful elitist attitude.

For my part, I have never met an elitist Calvinist, though I am sure there are some. The CAlvinists I know are humbled and amazed that God chose them for no reason other than the reason he gives in Scripture ... that we should be to the praise of his glory. Let us never forget the real reason of election. God told us why he elected us. What else do we need to know?

 

Hello KJ.

I see the lack of any scripture from you as a declaration that you have none and nothing but your own opinion.

I never suggested He excuses my sin since I believe Christ died for them.

I think He knows how to chastise His children do not concern yourself He gives us everything we need.

I am?

john.

 

Hello icthus.

For your infomation I have never said that the gospel is for everyone.

john.

 

For your infomation I have never said that the gospel is for everyone.

john. </font>[/QUOTE]John, then you are contradicting God himself. Jesus very clearly says in Mark 16:15, that we are to "preach the Gospel to all the creation", that is, to every human being ever created. There is no way that you can refer this phrase only to the elect.

 

Hello icthus.

What me personally? A bit of a tall order. every human being ever created You have made an error? You don't mean everyone ever created. You do not communicate with the dead do you?
Since you say that God commands that we preach to everyone why did He not let the other nations know? PS 147:19 He has revealed his word to Jacob, his laws and decrees to Israel. 20 He has done this for no other nation; they do not know his laws.
You must harmonise your beliefs to scripture.
There is no way that you can refer this phrase only to the elect.
John 10:26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one."
AM 8:11 "The days are coming," declares the Sovereign LORD,
"when I will send a famine through the land--
not a famine of food or a thirst for water,
but a famine of hearing the words of the LORD.

AM 8:12 Men will stagger from sea to sea
and wander from north to east,
searching for the word of the LORD,
but they will not find it.

If any reprobate hears the word he will suffer for it.

john.

 

John, I take it you are against preaching the Gospel to everyone without exception? In that case, why bother with it at all, since in your theology the elect will be saved anyway!

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[ June 23, 2005, 04:31 PM: Message edited by: Pastor Larry ]

 

Hello icthus.

I decide what I say to who I say. I do not disobey my God. MT 7:6 "Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces. I am an evangelist and I know when to keep my mouth shut. Cyberspace is not the same! That's why I continue to speak. If this were the street I would take the warning.
Jesus tells us to be wise and He tells us to be careful and to tell people about His glory. I believe that those who accept the message have always been the sheep of Jesus and will hear. No credit for me. I believe that those I have spoken to who are reprobate will suffer the worse for their refusal, where I spoke truly, to accept the truth. I must accept the fact that I am an instrument to cause greater suffering yet not I but the grace of God that is with me.

I joined my first Church because it had an outreach team. I joined it before I joined the Church or was baptised and I went into the darkest places with them bullet proof!
I spent a year or a little less in witnessing to the Jw's at their houses as a new born, what a rush it all was, we had a long list of addresses.
I speak of Christ and I live the life and I believe that all those that come within earshot will gain or see and hear Wisdom from me.
I love the Lord my God with all that He has given me and it is more than normal. He says open your mouth and He will fill it with words. And so He does.
But I boast. He has changed me without me. I used to be selfserving and I would be a liar if I said that was no longer the case.
Ok?

It is correct. If I sat down and did nothing it would not change a thing but appointed to sit down I was as those to come are appointed but then where would I be with my Kingdom points?

john.

 

Not so.
JN 10:14 "I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me-- 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father--and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.
Jesus talks of His sheep yet to repent.</font>[/QUOTE]Just what are you attempting to say here John?
The quoted KJ statement is encompassed in the scripture your quote. Do you see it differently?

 

Hello Wes.

"His people" are all that repent.
I took that as a statement of order. Those that repent are His people. I replied that those who are His sheep are so before they are repenting.

All that repent are His people but it is not repentance that saves but it is grace that saves.

John 10:16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.

Sheep before repentance.

john.

 

For your infomation I have never said that the gospel is for everyone.

john. </font>[/QUOTE]Oh really? The non-elect cannot pick up a Bible and read it? If the Bible is not for everyone, that makes God out to be a liar and the words in it a lie!

 

Hello webdog.

They can if there's one to hand and they can read but with reading comes God's hardening and the dakness in them gets that much darker as they revolt ever more from His command as He so directs them for His glory. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. Romans 9:17-18.
Romans 8:7 the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so.

MT 7:6 "Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.
What don't you understand about the command 'Do Not'?
PS 147:19 He has revealed his word to Jacob, his laws and decrees to Israel. 20 He has done this for no other nation; they do not know his laws.
How does that make God out to be a liar and the words in the bible a lie please?

john.

 

I took that as a statement of order. Those that repent are His people. I replied that those who are His sheep are so before they are repenting.

All that repent are His people but it is not repentance that saves but it is grace that saves.

John 10:16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.

Sheep before repentance.</font>[/QUOTE]Then you could be mistaken! You have no evidence to support your contention that one is a sheep before repentance! Even John 10:16 is not a declaration of who the sheep that Jesus has are, only that there are those not of the Jewish sheepfold, that are, or will become sheep through FAITH in Jesus.
You see, John, you are presuming what you should not from the scripture you quoted. In John 10:16 Jesus is saying that His church will be comprised of sheep from not only the Jewish people, but of all the peoples of the world. He is not saying that they are now living (that is, at the time of John's writing), but that of all the peoples of the world, those who hear his voice become his sheep and that there will be only one church comprised of the peoples of the world.

True, Jesus spoke this at one point in the time space continuum, however he was not speaking "in the here and now" but for all of the time of God's grace, the time allotted by God for the redemption of mankind.

By the way, you have yet to prove that God's grace has the power to save!

 

Wes, just what do you mean by such a statement?

"By the way, you have yet to prove that God's grace has the power to save!"

Is is evident fro Scripture, that "the grace of God that brings salvation, has appeared to all men" (Titus 2:11)

Is this not in your Bible?

 

Hello Wes.

I know some accuse me of being God but I assure you I am incapable of proving that one is saved by grace. I pass onto you what I have been taught. Eph 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved...
If you do not believe that then it is because God has not revealed it to you. Ask Him to reveal it to you.

john.

 

Hello Wes.

Mistaken because I believe the word?

He chose me in Him before the creation seems like pretty convincing argument in my favour I would say.

John 10:25 Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.

but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. Only the sheep will believe, those who are not will not because they cannot because the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. Romans 8:7.

john.

 

quote:
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Rest has to do with salvation, not sanctification.
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I see the lack of any scripture from you as a declaration that you have none and nothing but your own opinion.


John...think what you want...you have the right to be wrong. No need to give you Scripture when every Christian knows for a fact that the "rest" you speak of and try to apply to sanctification is not right. Rest has to do with ceasing from works to be saved...that's got nothing to do with salvation. If you aren't working out your salvation you are in disobedience to God. Good day.