Does God love the non-elect?

JohnP, you say: "He chose me in Him before the creation seems like pretty convincing argument in my favour I would say."

What do you mean that "He chose me in Him before the creation"? Are you referring to salvation? If this choosing was to salvation, and it took place before the foundation of the world, then it must mean that you were really saved BEFORE you were born-again, when you asked Jesus into your heart? Or, did you not have to repent to be saved? What exactly did this choosing entail?

 

He thinks he was saved before he was ever born. That he wasn't a wicked sinner. Basically...the Son of the Son of God.

 

Good day to you as well KJ.

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn.

I think the sentence needs repairing.

How can I not be working my salvation out since I've come so far? I am assured of my salvation completely. My faith is humongous! ISA 49:16 See, I have engraved you on the palms of my hands; your walls are ever before me.
This He told me.

john.

 

We have beat this up incessantly. Why do you insist on returning to this statement that is not true? Being "chosen to salvation" (as 2 Thess 2:13 clearly states) is not the same as "being saved." The elect are elect to be saved. They are not already saved. Election takes place before the foundation of hte world (Eph 1:4; 2 Thess 2:13); salvation takes place in time. Remember 2 Tim 2:10 clearly shows that election is not the same as salvation. There are some elect who are not yet saved.

Believe the Bible; don't keep repeating this nonsense. We can grant KJ a little slack since he is new here. But Icthus, you are way out of line to repeat these untrue statements. You have been taught the truth about what we believe. It is time for you to change your beliefs.

 

Hello KJ.

Who me? Strange thing to say? ISA 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Ok.

john.

 

Again...rest has nothing to do with sanctification. It is about salvation. Oh...and God Himself said "WORK...OUT...YOUR...SALVATION...WITH...FEAR...AND...TREMBLING." Did He mean it? A simple yes or no will suffice.

As for Isaiah 49:16...I believe that too. I said I believe in eternal security.

 

Y...E...S. But then I know Him. He is awesome.

john.

 

Hello icthus.

As per Pastor Larry plus:

I did not repent in any sense of the word! I was an atheist who wanted a Pentecostal Pastor off my back so I agreed to pray with him and ask Jesus, if He were there and if He wanted to, to reveal Himself to me.
As I spoke the Pastor's words into the air I realised I was talking to another person and then my atheism sort of vanished.

Without faith it is impossible to please God. That's simple enough. If you don't get it ask Him.

I chose nothing and I received everything. I found Him who I was not seeking!
Repentance is a sin unless one is born again and even then there is only one repentance not to be repented of and that is the decision to turn which I passed on and was saved regardless. I believed because I had no choice! Came as a bit of a shock really! HaHa! He blew my mind!

Ok? So you have your work cut out with me seeing as I came in the easy way without the possibilty of putting my ego first! He knows how big that is.

john.

 

Good for you. Start loving like He commands you to.

 

We have beat this up incessantly. Why do you insist on returning to this statement that is not true? Being "chosen to salvation" (as 2 Thess 2:13 clearly states) is not the same as "being saved." The elect are elect to be saved. They are not already saved. Election takes place before the foundation of hte world (Eph 1:4; 2 Thess 2:13); salvation takes place in time. Remember 2 Tim 2:10 clearly shows that election is not the same as salvation. There are some elect who are not yet saved.

Believe the Bible; don't keep repeating this nonsense. We can grant KJ a little slack since he is new here. But Icthus, you are way out of line to repeat these untrue statements. You have been taught the truth about what we believe. It is time for you to change your beliefs. </font>[/QUOTE]Larry, just who are you trying to kid with your remark, "Being "chosen to salvation" (as 2 Thess 2:13 clearly states)"? You know fully well, as I have mentioned this to you before, that this reading you keep harping back to in 2 Thess 2:13, is NOT the original. Check the textual evidence for yourself. Stop misusing Scripture for your illgain!

 

Nobody. I just said what God said.

Did you check the textual evidence? Why don't you tell people what the issue is and what relevance it has. I know why you don't. Becuase if they find out, it will prove you wrong.

The point of discussion is whether the text says aparken or ap' arkes. The difference is whether God chose us "from the beginning" or "as a firstfruit." What is not at issue is the fact that God chose us to salvation. What is the point? Very clearly, whichever variant you choose, it still says that God chose us to salvation, the very thing that Icthus denies.

If any of you are interested in the evidence, get out Metzger's Textual Commentary. This is given a B rating, which means that the reading "from the beginning" is almost certain, meaning it most likely is "the original." It is the second highest of four ratings. Icthus may know that and just failed to tell us because he knows how destructive it is to his position.

As you can see yet again, I have not misused Scripture. I have shown that Scripture says what I say. You lose again. When will you learn that you can't win at this game? Debating theology is not your forte. You keep losing.

 

We were chosen to Salvation as much as those who were DESTINED to disobey the Word of God!

1 Peter 2:8 They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.

 

Bob K just gave a beautiful verse on another thread I would like to pass on.

Ps 65:4 Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple.

john.