Does God Prevent Some from Hearing The Gospel?

[AustinC]

the teaching of "election" in the reformed theology, makes God a "respecter of persons", and as Peter says in Acts 10:34, "Then Peter replied, “I see very clearly that God shows no favoritism"!

It shows God is Sovereign and chooses to do what He wills with zero regard as to what we think about His choice.

God looks on all person's and sees us all as wretched people, justly deserving of hell. He chooses, according to His Sovereign will (which He does not reveal to us). It is His right to do so. He pardons whom He wills and He condemns whom He wills. Neither you nor I have any authority to tell God He has acted unfair. In fact, we would be acting like Job's wife if we declared God to be unfair.
Therefore, I tell you to repent, sbg. You are judging God and demanding He act as you think He should act.

 

[AustinC]

I notice that you have not directly responded to the OP?

“And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not. Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.” (Isaiah 6:9-10) KJV

"Go tell this people" - Israel

"Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not. Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes;" - prophetic word of God. God refuses to save them by grace.

"lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.” - God refuses to have them save themselves.

This is reminiscent of the Garden of Eden.

Genesis 3:22-24
Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever—” therefore the Lord God sent him out from the garden of Eden to work the ground from which he was taken. He drove out the man, and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim and a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life.

Whether you like it or not, God Sovereignly chooses according to His will. God does NOT give you the choice to save yourself through human repentance, before He chooses to make you alive with Christ.

Face it, you are subject to God and His Sovereign will. Be thankful and grateful that by His grace, He chose to save you.

 

[SavedByGrace]

God looks on all person's and sees us all as wretched people, justly deserving of hell. He chooses, according to His Sovereign will (which He does not reveal to us). It is His right to do so. He pardons whom He wills and He condemns whom He wills.

so, God looks on ALL persons and see ALL as wrethced people, justly deserving hell. so far, Biblical. Then, from the ALL He choses SOME for salvation, and leaves the rest to be eternally damned? on WHAT basis???

 

[SavedByGrace]

Typical responses by the "reformed" just pushing their "theology", but cannot respond to the OP!

 

[AustinC]

so, God looks on ALL persons and see ALL as wrethced people, justly deserving hell. so far, Biblical. Then, from the ALL He choses SOME for salvation, and leaves the rest to be eternally damned? on WHAT basis???

God gives you and I no answer to the question "On what basis?". As Sovereign over creation, God is under zero obligation to answer your demand. What he tells you is this:

Ephesians 1:3-14
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

sbg, you are in a fight against God, demanding from Him as though you have the right to demand. Again, I tell you to repent.

 

[AustinC]

Typical responses by the "reformed" just pushing their "theology", but cannot respond to the OP!

I answered the OP. It is clear you do not presently have ears to hear. May God open your ears.

 

[SavedByGrace]

I answered the OP. It is clear you do not presently have ears to hear. May God open your ears.

No, you have NOT dealt with the main point of the OP. WHY did Jesus, Who is God Incarnate, not use the OT reference in Isaiah 6, as John does, where the actions are the work of God, as punishment for the Jews refusing to listen to Him? Instead, Jesus makes US the hearers of the Gospel to CLOSE OUR OWN EYES to The Truth. The change is very important.

 

[AustinC]

No, you have NOT dealt with the main point of the OP. WHY did Jesus, Who is God Incarnate, not use the OT reference in Isaiah 6, as John does, where the actions are the work of God, as punishment for the Jews refusing to listen to Him? Instead, Jesus makes US the hearers of the Gospel to CLOSE OUR OWN EYES to The Truth. The change is very important.

Jesus is God. He chose what he chose. Accept His Sovereign right to do whatever He wills.

You are working extremely hard to cling to your false belief. Is that due to self-pride?

The struggle is within you. Others here recognize what God says and accept His word.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Jesus is God. He chose what he chose. Accept His Sovereign right to do whatever He wills.

You are working extremely hard to cling to your false belief. Is that due to self-pride?

The struggle is within you. Others here recognize what God says and accept His word.

thanks for your input. I can see from your comments, that you really cannot respond against what I have said in the OP!

 

[Dave G]

There is no NT text that says that ANY human is more important to Him than others, which is what the teaching of "election", or, rather, "elitism", as taught by Reformed, is

Respectfully,
I think that your differentiating between the "whosoever believeth" and "God's elect" overlooks one very real aspect...they are one and the same.
Those that have believed on Christ from the heart ( not just with the mind and then fall away during trials and temptation, see Matthew 13 ), are the elect.

As for being "elite", to me that is your mind's reaction to something that it finds distasteful...and disagreeing with God's right to have mercy upon whom He wishes ( Exodus 33:19, Romans 9:13-18 ) and to limit His choice of the sinner to salvation ( 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 ) according to His purposes.
Scripture point-blank talks of God's purposes according to election standing ( Romans 9:11 ).
That we as men have no business replying to God and asking, "why have you made me this way?" ( Romans 9:19-24 )
From God's point of view they are beloved and are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus ( Ephesians 2:10 ), but according to other passages, they are "scarcely saved", and come from basically the "nobodies" of society ( 1 Corinthians 1:18-31 ).

To address your first point, God's elect are not elite...
They are dirt bag sinners the same as the rest of mankind, whom God has shown His favor towards...
And, speaking strictly for myself, none of us can figure out why He bothered with us.

From my point of view, there is nothing inherently worth saving in a bunch of fishermen, mechanics, tax collectors, prostitutes, farmers, hill folk, coal miners, sailors, cotton pickers, slaves and other run-of-the-mill poor people who have, more often than not, been guilty of some of the most heinous sins that have ever been recorded.
Case-in-point:

The thief on the cross, Samson, Jacob, and many others in the Bible...
Including Moses and David.


To me, the charge of "elitism" keeps being made, when the reality of it is that no one who comes to Christ is in any way better or worse than any man in God's eyes;
and is in any way more or less deserving of God's grace than the next person.
We're all sinners deserving of eternal punishment in God's wrath ( no matter if we've committed one sin or a million ), and none of us has anything to stand on except that mercy and grace.

Please don't blame the Lord for deciding to save whom He wishes...
It's His prerogative to save and to damn;
We all deserve it.


If you come to understand that fully, perhaps you will come to understand grace in it's true and Biblical sense, my friend.
Grace is God's completely unmerited favor towards rebellious sinners who deserve His wrath in eternal Hell fire.

 

[JonC]

God does not prevent men from hearing the gospel.

To be fair, Calvinists do not believe God prevents men from hearing the gospel or from turning to Him. Instead Calvinism presents all men as rejecting God and God's work is redemptive as He draws some (not all) to Himself.

 

[Dave G]

I never dobut that salvation, from start to finish, IS the Work of God:

I'm sorry, but I disagree.

To me, you're objecting to the single most important part of that "start-to-finish"...
God doing the saving according to His own purposes through His electing grace.

In other words, you appear ( at least to me ) to consistently and strenuously object to God deciding who to save ( Romans 9:14-24 ), who to damn, and His performing a work completely independent of our input as men.

As for the OP, yes, I see that God does prevent people from "hearing" the Gospel and believing it:

John 12:37-41 <------ "He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts..."
Romans 11:7-11. <-------- Specifically stated here..."God has given them a spirit of slumber..."
2 Corinthians 4:3-4. <----- By allowing Satan to blind the hearts of men.

God is God, and therefore is within His own rights, to do as He pleases. I

Respectfully, I don't think that you really believe that, sir.

For example,
If He were to do as He pleases and save people with no regard for their input in the matter, then to me you're not really believing that He can do as He wishes.

Again, God does as He wishes...we as men have nothing to say about it.
Please see Job 9:12, Job 42:2, Daniel 4:35, Psalms 33:11, Psalms 115:3, Psalms 135:6, Isaiah 14:27, Isaiah 40:15, Isaiah 45:9, Romans 9:20 )

 

[SavedByGrace]

Respectfully,
I think that your differentiating between the "whosoever believeth" and "God's elect" overlooks one very real aspect...they are one and the same.
Those that have believed on Christ from the heart ( not just with the mind and then fall away during trials and temptation, see Matthew 13 ), are the elect.

As for being "elite", to me that is your mind's reaction to something that it finds distasteful...and disagreeing with God's right to have mercy upon whom He wishes ( Exodus 33:19, Romans 9:13-18 ) and to limit His choice of the sinner to salvation ( 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 ) according to His purposes.
Scripture point-blank talks of God's purposes according to election standing ( Romans 9:11 ).
That we as men have no business replying to God and asking, "why have you made me this way?" ( Romans 9:19-24 )
From God's point of view they are beloved and are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus ( Ephesians 2:10 ), but according to other passages, they are "scarcely saved", and come from basically the "nobodies" of society ( 1 Corinthians 1:18-31 ).

To address your first point, God's elect are not elite...
They are dirt bag sinners the same as the rest of mankind, whom God has shown His favor towards...
And, speaking strictly for myself, none of us can figure out why He bothered with us.

from my point of view, there is nothing inherently worth saving in a bunch of fishermen, mechanics, tax collectors, prostitutes, farmers, hill folk, coal miners, sailors, cotton pickers, slaves and other run-of-the-mill poor people who have, more often than not, been guilty of some of the most heinous sins that have ever been recorded.
Case-in-point:

The thief on the cross, Samson, Jacob, and


To me, the charge of "elitism" keeps being made, when the reality of it is that no one who comes to Christ is in any way better or worse than any man in God's eyes;
and is in any way more or less deserving of God's grace than the next person.
We're all sinners deserving of eternal punishment in God's wrath ( no matter if we've committed one sin or a million ), and none of us has anything to stand on except that mercy and grace.

Please don't blame the Lord for deciding to save whom He wishes...
It's His prerogative to save and to damn...
We all deserve it.


If you come to understand that fully, perhaps you will come to understand grace in it's true and Biblical sense, my friend.
Grace is God's completely unmerited favor towards rebellious sinners who deserve His wrath in eternal Hell fire.

for starters, Romans 9, 10, and 11, are NOT about the "elect" as in what you guys think, but the contrast between the Jews and Gentiles! These chapters have been hijacked by the "reformed" to force them to say things that they do NOT!

 

[SavedByGrace]

God doing the saving according to His own purposes through His electing grace.

Scriptures???

 

[SavedByGrace]

God does not prevent men from hearing the gospel.

To be fair, Calvinists do not believe God prevents men from hearing the gospel or from turning to Him. Instead Calvinism presents all men as rejecting God and God's work is redemptive as He draws some (not all) to Himself.

well, if the reformed teach in a "limited atonement", then this is God's way of "preventing" the greater majority of lost sinners of ever coming to Jesus, because they cannot, as they are non-elect and Jesus never died for them!

 

[SavedByGrace]

Romans 11:7-11. <-------- Specifically stated here..."God has given them a spirit of slumber..."

which means that He can do the same to the "elect" today, as Israel were the "elect" in the OT, and they lost this!

 

[JonC]

well, if the reformed teach in a "limited atonement", then this is God's way of "preventing" the greater majority of lost sinners of ever coming to Jesus, because they cannot, as they are non-elect and Jesus never died for them!

The Reformed idea of Atonement, IMHO, is flawed. BUT that does not put God in the role of blinding people to the gospel.

Their idea is men are all blind- but God gives sight to some.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Their idea is men are all blind- but God gives sight to some.

yes, what Paul calls "another gospel" which is not really the "gospel" at all!

 

[JonC]

yes, what Paul calls "another gospel" which is not really the "gospel" at all!

I agree that is not a gospel (it is an understanding of the gospel....and I believe an incorrect one).

 

[AustinC]

thanks for your input. I can see from your comments, that you really cannot respond against what I have said in the OP!

All can see that you do not accept what I have shared. It's all on you. Repent