Does God Send Babies to Hell?

[Darrell C]

Darrell C said: ↑
You seem to imply this in regards to the Rapture. At that time the Church will be, as a whole, glorified, their bodies being resurrected into glorified form.

No, infant death is separate from the issue of the Rapture. While infants that die will receive glorified bodies in the Rapture, in my view ( though I am not dogmatic on this point), we are not speaking about physical resurrection, but spiritual resurrection (new Birth).

It is in fact that every thing - the "dead in Christ rise First" 1 Thess 4 - at the "FIRST resurrection" Rev 20:5

Everyone except the Two Witnesses.

They are raptured at the mid-point:


Revelation 11:11-12

King James Version (KJV)


11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.


This is a resurrection that precedes the First Resurrection of Revelation 20.

The First Resurrection in sequence is that of Christ. Paul gives the order:


1 Corinthians 15:22-24

King James Version (KJV)


22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

It is in deed the first resurrection. First that is coming in the future to 1Thess 4.
First that is coming in the future of Rev 20 ...

First that is coming in the future of those NT writers.

I know some view the Two Witnesses as symbolic of certain things, but it is hard to do that. Antichrist cannot kill the Word of God, for example.

They are men that die physically, are raised to life, and taken into the heaven which is identical to Christ being taken into glory.

True.

In Rev 20 the saints take part in the first resurrection and the wicked take part in the 2nd resurrection 1000 years later.

Rev 20
4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

Again, you are faced with the dilemma that all unbelievers are destroyed by the time the 75 Day establishment period is over. I believe it is in this time that the Sheep and Goat judgment takes place. Physically living believers enter into the Kingdom, and it is from them that the unbelievers at the end of the Millennial Kingdom come from.

"The rest of the dead" refers to the unbelievers/lost. The point is that the Tribulation Martyrs are raised, but they are the only ones. Unbelievers are not raised from another thousand years.

No one is raptured in Rev 11 - in Rev 11, 12, 13 the 1260 years = 42 months of years = 3.5 times of prophetic apocalytpic years = 1260 years. All three chapters are speaking of the dark ages - 1260 years of dark ages persecution -- this has already happened.

And so also in Dan 9 the 70 weeks of years - is 490 sola years on earth in that same day-for-year model pointing to the first coming of Christ. Accurately predicting it in fact. The method is proven.

And the Tribulation Period is the Seventieth Week.

It will be seven solar years.

Not 1260 years.

And it has not happened because there was no Return of Christ 750 or so years ago. Christ Returns at the end of the Tribulation.

Agreed. the 2nd coming of Rev 19... the FIRST resurrection of Rev 20 -- this is what starts the 1000 year millennium. And as Rev 19 says "The REST were killed" -- that is those not killed in the armies that come against Christ in Rev -- the "rest" -- all the rest. All the wicked... killed in Rev 19 at the 2nd coming.

And as 1Thess 4 points out - this is also when the saints are taken to heaven - raptured.

The "dead in Christ rise FIRST" 1Thess 4 at the "FIRST resurrection" Rev 20:5-6. And this starts the clock for the 10000 years - the millennium. A desolate earth and the saints in heaven.

I believe the "rest" there speaks about those gathered against God. We also see all nations gathered and judged in Matthew 25.

Not according to Rev 20.

Rev 20 the "REST of the dead did not come to life until AFTER the 1000 years". The wicked are raised at the end of the millennium.

Agreed. The primary point is that only believers enter the Kingdom, for as Christ taught, "Ye must be born again."

We are in this only because it is at the resurrection of 1Thess 4 and Rev 20 that the sinful nature is removed --- from the "Babies" in focus in this thread.

As I said, it cannot be, because both living and dead are resurrected in the Rapture. In the First Resurrection only the dead in Christ are said to be raised, and it is specific to the Tribulation because of the reference to the Antichrist.

But we are getting off the focal point, which is to consider why God would or would not send babies to Hell.


God bless.

 

[BobRyan]

No, infant death is separate from the issue of the Rapture. While infants that die will receive glorified bodies in the Rapture, in my view ( though I am not dogmatic on this point), we are not speaking about physical resurrection, but spiritual resurrection (new Birth).




Everyone except the Two Witnesses.

They are raptured at the mid-point:


Revelation 11:11-12

King James Version (KJV)


11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.


This is a resurrection that precedes the First Resurrection of Revelation 20.

The First Resurrection in sequence is that of Christ. Paul gives the order:


1 Corinthians 15:22-24

King James Version (KJV)


22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.




I know some view the Two Witnesses as symbolic of certain things, but it is hard to do that. Antichrist cannot kill the Word of God, for example.

They are men that die physically, are raised to life, and taken into the heaven which is identical to Christ being taken into glory.




Again, you are faced with the dilemma that all unbelievers are destroyed by the time the 75 Day establishment period is over. I believe it is in this time that the Sheep and Goat judgment takes place. Physically living believers enter into the Kingdom, and it is from them that the unbelievers at the end of the Millennial Kingdom come from.

"The rest of the dead" refers to the unbelievers/lost. The point is that the Tribulation Martyrs are raised, but they are the only ones. Unbelievers are not raised from another thousand years.




And the Tribulation Period is the Seventieth Week.

It will be seven solar years.

Not 1260 years.

And it has not happened because there was no Return of Christ 750 or so years ago. Christ Returns at the end of the Tribulation.




I believe the "rest" there speaks about those gathered against God. We also see all nations gathered and judged in Matthew 25.




Agreed. The primary point is that only believers enter the Kingdom, for as Christ taught, "Ye must be born again."




As I said, it cannot be, because both living and dead are resurrected in the Rapture. In the First Resurrection only the dead in Christ are said to be raised, and it is specific to the Tribulation because of the reference to the Antichrist.

But we are getting off the focal point, which is to consider why God would or would not send babies to Hell.


God bless.

Since that is mostly on the eschatology - postrib-pre-mill rapture topic - will respond to those points on that thread -- #1 BobRyan, Tuesday at 11:34 PM

 

[BobRyan]

We both agree infants are not in relationship with God, and that they do not personally sin, so while we understand that nature has a bent for sin, because they have not the Spirit, in the womb they are not sinning.

agreed.

The primary question here is, we know that they must be born again, so when does that happen? Why wouldn't they go into eternal separation by default

Because they need a Savior - and have one. 1 John 4:14 "God sent His Son to be the Savior of the World". How much more for those who who have not sinned?

2 Peter 3 "God is not willing that any should perish".

1 John 2:2 "He is the Atoning Sacrifice for our sins and not for our sins only but for the sins of the whole world" -- how much more for those who never chose a single sin?

As far as to what extent a child in the womb has a conscious being, I don't think we are wrong to acknowledge that, for instance, they can feel pain. So they are not completely without understanding.

Animals feel pain - but they do not understand the concept of sin -- and in many ways they are "more aware" of life than the infant pre-born. So we are still stuck with your initial statement - they do not sin primarily because they don't "know enough to sin".