posted by Steaver:
Thanks for the input Bob, but I am still left with my same questions unanswered. If anyone can help me understand a pre-ressurrection rebirth with scripture, please reply.
The dispensation of the law is quite different than the dispensation of grace. Bob, as an SDA, believes (as the Jews believe) in the validity of the Law today). Thus his arguments for the keeping of the Sabbath--an impossibility in our culture, and other Old Testament observances. Jesus came, and at the cross fulfilled the Law.
During this day and age we live in the Church Age known also as the Age of Grace.
In the Old Testament God called out a nation to himself, the nation of Israel. The sign of that covenant made to Israel was the Sabbath Day. Even a cursorry reading of that chapter tells the reader that keeing the Sabbath was for the nation of Israel and their generations forever, and was never intended for the Gentile. The penalty for breaking the Sabbath day was death. If one was truly to keep the Sabbath Day, then he would have to kill those who didn't keep the Sabbath Day.
Exodus 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for
it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
To be born into the nation of Israel was to be born into God's family. The sign of that birth into God's family was circumcision.
Now in the New Testament God is also calling out a nation for Himself:
1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood,
an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath
called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
God has called us (those that believe on Christ) to be a holy nation. The catch is that we have to be a part of his family. Like the Israelites we must be born into the family of God. Thus, as Jesus said, we must be born again.
Christ came to die on the cross. A new dispensation was beginning. Christ was ministering still primariy to the Jews, but every once and awhile he would reach out to the Gentiles as well. He said plainly in John 3:16 that his ministry would be to the whole world. He said in John 1:11, that he came to his own (the Jews), but they received him not. Then in verse 12, he says: "As many as received him to them gave he power to become the sons of God even to them that believe on his name." Verse 13 goes on to specify "even to those that are born...of God" Between these two sections John shows by way of illustration how to be born again, as he presents to us the discourse between Jesus and Nicodemus.
Three times in John three does Jesus say to Nicodemus: You must be born again. It is important. You must be born again. You cannot see the kingdom of God if you are not born again (3:3).
Nicodemus replies: "How can a man be born when he is old? Shall he enter into his mother's womb and be born a second time?" Clearly he was confused. He did not know what it meant to be born again. The term was foreign to him, and though he was a teacher of the Jews, we can well understand why it was foreign to him. Jesus was teaching something new. He had not heard this before.
Jesus patiently explains: "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; that which is born of the spirit is Spirit." There are two kinds of birth. One is physical--the one that we are all familiar with. That is how we all got into this world. Through a physical birth. The other is spiritual. You need to be born twice: physically and spiritually. This has nothing to do now with Nicodemus's Jewish heritage which he had so long put his trust in. He could no longer assume that he was going to heaven just because he was a Jew, no matter how devout he was. Just because he was physically born a Jew would not get him there. Now, he must be born of the Spirit. This is what he did not understand.
Jesus continues:
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
--First, note that the last thing that a Jewish Rabbi would have on his mind is baptism. This is not in the context, and it is not what Jesus is referring to. He could be referring to the water of the physical birth, but not likely.
The Jews had cerremonial washings. They could do almost nothing without washing first. Water is symbolic of cleansing. That is what it is used for.
But Jesus said:
John 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
It is the Word of God that cleanses you. The water itself had no power to clean. (Neither did baptism.) But the Word of God did. They were made clean through the Word of God.
James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
--"begat he us with the word of truth" or born again with the Word. The meaning is the same. We are born again by the Word of God. This is the teaching of the Word of God.
Peter makes it very plain:
1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
--How is one born again? By the Word of God! This is what Peter teaches. He got this teaching from Jesus.
Thus the teaching of Jesus was that a man must be born of the Word of God and of the Spirit of God, the two agents that are necessary for salvation. You cannot be born again without the Word of God (the gospel message), neither the Spirit of God. It is an impossiblity.
John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
--He presses home the point that Nicodemus must be born again. It is new teaching to him, because these concepts are not clearly taught in the Old Testament.
The reference to the wind is simply a reference to how the Holy Spirit works. He is a person. But we do not always know when he is coming; where he is coming from, and where he is going, and when he is going to appear. He works according to the providence of God. And as further revelation informs us, he often works through the power of prayer.
John 3:9-10 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
--This was a mild rebuke to Nicodemus. Now he does know these things. It is obvious that not even the rest of the Sanhedrin understood these things.
God works in different ways in different periods of history.
DHK
