Does God's love have limits

[salzer mtn]

As with all good questions, they should be answered with truth.

Here the question is, does the "world" of John 3:16 refer to all of fallen mankind, or just to those chosen for salvation? It refers to fallen mankind, as it does in almost every case where John uses the term. In a few places, world refers to the fallen value system of fallen mankind.

Love grows in the garden of commitment, love manifests itself with commitment. See 1 Corinthians 13 for a more robust treatment.

When Jesus says, depart from me, I never knew you, is this tantamount to saying I never loved you? I think not. He died for us when we were yet sinners, therefore we were not elect when He died for us. Scripture says (Romans 8:33) no charge, such as sinner can be brought against God's elect. He died not only for the sinners who would become chosen, He also died for those who would not, such as the false prophet of 2 Peter 2:1.

So when scripture says God demonstrated His love toward us, when He died for us, that death demonstrates God's love toward all of fallen mankind.

Turning next to the question of if God's love stops when the lost perish and are consigned to Hades, my answer is not quite. God still treats the lost to justice, taking no pleasure in their punishment. But they are no longer considered potentials for redemption, so love diminished seems all that can be supported from scripture.

Wrong, In St. John 17:9 Christ while praying in the garden for his disciples and those that would believe on him through their word say's to the Father, I pray not for the world. This world he speaks of could only mean the world of the un-elect. The love that is spoken of in 1 Cor 13 is not the love of God toward men. If God's love grows out of commitment from man then you are saying God saw something in us to merit his love. Scripture refutes this in Rom 5:8 But God commended his love toward us, in that while were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Christ died for us is a letter to the redeemed, not the world. If God loves those is hell then there is no salvation assurance in his love. Because he loves me no greater than those God haters he cast into hell.

 

[Van]

Some times peaches, some times the pits.

In John 17:9 Jesus is praying for His disciples and not for fallen mankind. He is asking for their protection. Why? Keep reading. He sends them into the world, to reach those who believe. Then read verse 21, where Christ indeed prays for fallen mankind.

And next you misrepresent me - God's love grows out of commitment from man. No quote will be forthcoming. God is committed to mankind, for He sent His Son, and His Son laid down His life.

Now if you want to know the difference between commitment and involvement, just consider the breakfast of bacon and eggs. The chicken who provided the eggs was involved with your breakfast. The hog that provided the bacon was committed to your breakfast.

God bless.

 

[OldRegular]

God's love grows out of commitment from man.

If that is true you should be able to support it by Scripture.

 

[quantumfaith]

Wrong, In St. John 17:9 Christ while praying in the garden for his disciples and those that would believe on him through their word say's to the Father, I pray not for the world. This world he speaks of could only mean the world of the un-elect. The love that is spoken of in 1 Cor 13 is not the love of God toward men. If God's love grows out of commitment from man then you are saying God saw something in us to merit his love. Scripture refutes this in Rom 5:8 But God commended his love toward us, in that while were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Christ died for us is a letter to the redeemed, not the world. If God loves those is hell then there is no salvation assurance in his love. Because he loves me no greater than those God haters he cast into hell.

Thankful for God loving me while I was and still am a sinner. Personally grateful to NOT be a predestinarian.

 

[percho]

Very informative post, but useless in refuting what I said.

I'm not sure that you both are not saying the same thing. God chooses according to his purpose and that choosing isn't always relative to what some would call salvation, ie going to heaven or hell.

 

[percho]

The love of God is only found In Christ.To be apart from Christ is to be apart from His love.rom5 ...rom 8

Dconn is wrong on romans 9 once again.

You both could be correct.

For God so loved the world.

Who is presently in Christ. The predestined? Form the foundation of the world? Even Jacob was chosen in Christ for the Christ was to be in his line.

So?

Just what does the God propose to do in the Christ?

2 Cor 5:19
Eph 1:9,10

Have patience!

 

[Yeshua1]

Some times peaches, some times the pits.

In John 17:9 Jesus is praying for His disciples and not for fallen mankind. He is asking for their protection. Why? Keep reading. He sends them into the world, to reach those who believe. Then read verse 21, where Christ indeed prays for fallen mankind.

And next you misrepresent me - God's love grows out of commitment from man. No quote will be forthcoming. God is committed to mankind, for He sent His Son, and His Son laid down His life.

Now if you want to know the difference between commitment and involvement, just consider the breakfast of bacon and eggs. The chicken who provided the eggs was involved with your breakfast. The hog that provided the bacon was committed to your breakfast.

God bless.

Jesus said that he died for HIS OWN, and they will be he ones that will hear and heed His voice, and are to be part of His flock though!

God loves all of His creation, but has a "special" Love towards those whom He has called into a Covenant relationship with thru the death of Jesus!

And since God is infinite, His love does NOT change/grow/lesson depending by what we do, as His salvation is unconditional!

 

[OldRegular]

And next you misrepresent me - God's love grows out of commitment from man.

That is totally false! I posted the following Scripture earlier!

1 John 4:19. We love him, because he first loved us.

 

[Alcott]

I don't think its' possible from our perspective to believe that God "loves" even those in damnation. The only way to even approach that would be to claim that love is a feeling, not an action. Maybe we can accept such an idea for the present-- after all, in this world God generally does not help the weak who are starving or being abused. A few may be helped by chance or by us, but most who suffer in such ways die in such ways.

But infinite torment-- it's not hard to see how some groups just deny it, no matter what the Word says. Sometimes I really wonder if we who claim to believe it really do. But that's beside the point of love. Is love that does absolutely nothing to help anyone rise above unlimited torment love? To the unsaved world, it must be absurd. But what is it to us?

 

[Van]

Hi Old Regular, you seem to be having difficulty. Time catches up with all of us. Let me see if I can explain it to you.

Here is what I posted in post #22,

And next you misrepresent me - God's love grows out of commitment from man. No quote will be forthcoming. God is committed to mankind, for He sent His Son, and His Son laid down His life.

I have bolded the portion of my post to more clearly identify what was posted that misrepresented my view. So who wrote that such a view was mine? Go back and read post #21.

I will quote it for you,

If God's love grows out of commitment from man then you are saying God saw something in us to merit his love.

Note that this presents "God's love grows out of commitment from man" as representing my view, which it does not. He demonstrated His love toward us while we were yet sinners.

Now for some inexplicable reason, you jumped into our exchange with your post #23. I ignored it because you were seemingly confused. But now you have again posted (#28) as if I had addressed you. I have not.

 

[OldRegular]

Hi Old Regular, you seem to be having difficulty. Time catches up with all of us. Let me see if I can explain it to you.

Here is what I posted in post #22,
I have bolded the portion of my post to more clearly identify what was posted that misrepresented my view. So who wrote that such a view was mine? Go back and read post #21.

I will quote it for you,


Note that this presents "God's love grows out of commitment from man" as representing my view, which it does not. He demonstrated His love toward us while we were yet sinners.

Now for some inexplicable reason, you jumped into our exchange with your post #23. I ignored it because you were seemingly confused. But now you have again posted (#28) as if I had addressed you. I have not.

My apologies, I was confused. Just shows that one should read all posts in a thread to participate fairly and intelligently. Again my apology!

 

[Van]

My apologies, I was confused. Just shows that one should read all posts in a thread to participate fairly and intelligently. Again my apology!

No problem, DHK recently pointed out to me I posted a whole post to the wrong thread.