Does it Really Matter Who Wins in November?

[Oldtimer]

To give you a view that I was taught at home and in church(Presbyterian) which was Calvinistic. My father came back from WWII with a total diastase for our government.
At home and in church we were taught that all men should serve in the service, and I mean all. We were taught to stay out of the voting box as a lot were taught back then, because there isn't any answers in politics, only from God. Also don't work for the government.
Spurgeon was open against us getting into politics from the Baptist side of a few years ago and MacArthur is not real big on it today, if I recall correctly.
So service and voting does not always go hand in hand. I upset my father in many ways and voting was one of them, I did vote and still do but most of the time for president it is a third party man.

Brother Bob, thank you for your reply.

First, I agree 100% there aren't any answers in politics, only God. I don't look to the assembly of persons that we call government for answers. The answers that matter most lie within the scriptures and the council of the Holy Spirit in our hearts.

My guandry is that We, the People, choose the members of that assembly of persons. We aren't a nation ruled by kings who assume power through their lineage. Nor, are we a nation ruled by dictators who assume positions of power through force. Nor, are we a nation in chaos because there is no effective governing earthly power at the helm.

Our government is of the people, by the people, for the people. In the course of history, IMO, we are unique, as few have been given the opportunity to individually chose the nature of Caesar to whom we are to render (obey with one qualification). Our individual choices and/or failure to choose put our version of Caesar (assembly of persons) into power.

Barring God's direct intervention for His purposes, doesn't the Christian majority (if it truly exists as a majority) have the accountabiity/responsibility to maintain a government which will honor God instead of rejecting Him? There's a vast difference between the government establishing a state religion and RETAINING the freedom to worship our Creator. As others have their freedom follow their faiths or lack thereof.

If I understand the scriptures correctly, individual Hebrews did not have the opportunity to reject the leadership of corrupt rulers. The more corrupt their rulers became, the more corrupt the nation became, until God intervened. When this Republic was founded, we as individuals, in the body of Christ were given that opportunity = responsbility to reject the ungodly to have power over us.

As I've been writing this, I've been reminded of an old hymn.

Stand up! stand up for Jesus!
Stand in His strength alone;
The arm of flesh will fail you;
Ye dare not trust your own.
Put on the Gospel armor,
And, watching unto prayer,
Where duty calls, or danger,
Be never wanting there.

Source: http://www.hymnal.net/hymn.php/h/870#ixzz289TOGClq

Isn't it our duty, to use whatever means provided for us, regardless of how insignificant it may be in the big picture, to all the extent possible, reject the ungodly to have power over us?

Stand up! stand up for Jesus!
Ye soldiers of the cross;
Lift high His royal banner,
It must not suffer loss:

How much loss has His royal banner already suffered because professing Christians did not go to the polls and vote their convictions over the the last century, in particular? How much more loss will be suffered each time the "greater" of two evils is chosen "by the people"? All the people or just a minority who do not share the convictions of the majority?

In closing, yes we are to pray. As, members of the body of Christ, aren't we expected to do more? If we don't take every opportunity to reject evil, regardless of how little that may be, aren't we in effect supporting it, instead?

 

[Bob Alkire]

Our government is of the people, by the people, for the people. In the course of history, IMO, we are unique, as few have been given the opportunity to individually chose the nature of Caesar to whom we are to render (obey with one qualification). Our individual choices and/or failure to choose put our version of Caesar (assembly of persons) into power.

I agree but it has been years on the national level that I've felt I had much to say of who was put up by the two major parties. State politics is turning the same way. Local I feel I still have some power, my vote means a little more.

What hurts I recall Harry Byrd of Virginia and others saying we need to cut spending and that was as a child and we are still saying the same. I hear about the same thing each election, it gets old. FDR learn if you promise the people a pot and a window to throw it out from, they will vote for you, and most after him have made the same type of promises.

 

[Zaac]

I am seriously struggling with how to vote for POTUS. I will not vote for President Obama and I am having a hard time voting for Mitt Romney. I have absolutely no confidence that a Mitt Romney presidency will result in any significant drop in abortions or a reversal of gay marriage or gay marriage relabeled as civil unions . I have been a Republican since I was old enough to vote but I am more and more convinced that Evangelical Christians are being played as fools by the GOP over issues that the party big cigars care little about. I fear abortion is now a red herring issue that he GOP uses only to guarantee they get our vote no matter who they throw out there as a candidate and no matter what other policies they espouse and then do nothing of significance to correct abortion while in control of government.

:applause:

In addition to the concerns about Mitt Romney's historic and well documented flip-flopping on policies, I have a real concern that putting a practicing Mormon in the White House will inevitably increase the prestige and influence of Mormonism and help it become more accepted and mainstream outside it base. It is a cult that paints itself as Christian and tries to come across as another part of the larger Evangelical family. They look and act a lot like Baptist sans the coffee but their Jesus is not our Jesus. It will result in an increase of new converts to Mormonism even from among Baptists laity, especially those who have not been sufficiently or effectively taught proper Biblical doctrine.

Beautiful. :applause:This is why we absolutely should not support either one of the two major party candidates.

I struggle with the idea of my vote for Mitt Romney helping them covert even on more person to their church. Perhaps in an odd way I would be less concerned if he were Hindu, because Hinduism does not market itself as Christian. Mormonism does and that is a lie.

As Spurgeon said, "When presented with two evils, choose neither."
This is what I am struggling with as I consider my vote for POTUS. I will vote down the ballot regardless.

Unfortunately , the Church is filled with compromisers today who don't seem to care if the false teachings of Mormonism get a larger platform to lead even one more person to hell.

 

[Oldtimer]

I agree but it has been years on the national level that I've felt I had much to say of who was put up by the two major parties. State politics is turning the same way. Local I feel I still have some power, my vote means a little more.

What hurts I recall Harry Byrd of Virginia and others saying we need to cut spending and that was as a child and we are still saying the same. I hear about the same thing each election, it gets old. FDR learn if you promise the people a pot and a window to throw it out from, they will vote for you, and most after him have made the same type of promises.

Bob, it's been "old" for a long time for me, too. It's been a l-o-n-g time since I saw I LIKE IKE slogans, in real time, on B&W tube TV.

I'm sick of the current crop of TV political ads, from both sides at all levels who can afford TV advertising. Mud-slinging, half-truths, distortions, you name it. As well promising bigger pots and larger windows.

What do we do besides prayer? Sit back in our rocking chairs and just surrender to those who will "fundamentally change America" 4 more years to complete what they've started? My vote to oppose the worst may be less significent than a nat speck on an attic window. But, I can look at the children on Sunday, after the elections, and know that I tried. It probably won't matter much, one way or the other for me, as my time is short, compared to theirs, before our Saviour calls me home.

I'm sorry, but I can't let my legacy to my great nieces and nephews be that I just went with the flow. Because I didn't like the choices available, I didn't chose any. Because I didn't like the obivious religious beliefs of one candidate, I didn't oppose the ____________ beliefs of the other one.

Individual grains of sand on a wide beach are nothing. Yet, let one grain of sand get in a sock and it can feel like a boulder. One vote, one grain of sand. Sometimes nothing can mean something.

 

[Bob Alkire]

Bob, it's been "old" for a long time for me, too. It's been a l-o-n-g time since I saw I LIKE IKE slogans, in real time, on B&W tube TV.

What do we do besides prayer?

My friend it has been a while since the I Like Ike buttons.
My father was so mad when the GOP ran Ike, that my father left the GOP. He said Ike was a liberal democrat, but not as liberal as Stevenson. He use to say Ike was the only president after FDR he knew who was more liberal than JFK and he believed JFK was a real left wing liberal who could not make a decision on his own(which Truman agreed with), he wasn't around for Carter or BHO.

Yes, prayer is what we need to do for our country and friends. But we do have the leaders we want, they were elected, you and I might not care for them but we the people have spoken.

 

[OldRegular]

We have a president now who is determined to establish this country as a European style socialist government. He has had commendable success so far even as he has increased national debt by 50%, increased those on food stamps by 50%, and set the stage for runaway inflation by printing money.

Perhaps worse this person has routinely assumed executive power that flouts the law. His latest is advising companies to ignore the law that requires a 60 day notice of impending layoffs because the date for notification is November 1, just before the election.

Obama gets away with usurping power because some in Congress are afraid to take corrective action and others don't care!

 

[Bob Alkire]

Obama gets away with usurping power because some in Congress are afraid to take corrective action and others don't care!

So true!!!

 

[Bob Alkire]

I should have said my grandfather on my mothers side left the GOP due to Ike, my father didn't vote.