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Does Jesus say exactly the same things in all 4 gospels?
- Thread starter xdisciplex
- Start date
A quick answer to x-d-x. Your question is based on a couple of misunderstandings.
First, the Scriptures were written in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek.
They were not written in English, so English 'rules' of grammar and speaking do not apply.
Second, do you understnad what is an indirect quotation, even in English, let alone Greek?
Koine Greek has no punctuation marks, hence, knows no such thing as a 'direct quote', as differing from an indirect quote, as does English.
Ed
First, the Scriptures were written in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek.
They were not written in English, so English 'rules' of grammar and speaking do not apply.
Second, do you understnad what is an indirect quotation, even in English, let alone Greek?
Koine Greek has no punctuation marks, hence, knows no such thing as a 'direct quote', as differing from an indirect quote, as does English.
Ed
If it's of any interest, here's my attempt to harmonize the Gospels, with a separate commentary (linked at the end) on the harmonization of the Resurrections accounts (which are the most scrutinized regarding supposed inconsistencies).
http://members.aol.com/etb700/monoevangelion.html
http://members.aol.com/etb700/monoevangelion.html
Yes, there are many spots where we can find different statements by Jesus.
Even at the Cross, the title of Jesus was variant.
John says " Jesus the Nazareth, King of the Jews" Luke says " This is the king of the Jews"
Mark says " King of the Jews" Matthew " this is the king of the Jews"
Apparently there are many verses where the statements are different between the writers.
I think the followings are the reasons for that.
1) In many cases, not all, the writers wrote the teachings, not according to Word-to-Word principle, but following the thoughts and main points.
2) Jesus spoke in Hebrew mainly, except in Aramaic in some areas like Deca-polis. Then it was translated into Greek, in the process of translation, the words might have differred depending on the translators.
It is quite controversial whether Gospel Matthew was written in Hebrew first, then translated into Greek later as Papias mentioned.
Apparently, Jesus spoke in Hebrew as He did to Paul ( Acts 26:14) and also mentioned Jot and Tittle which are not found in Greek but in Hebrews ( Mat 5:18) and also His title on the Cross was written in Romans, Greek and Hebrew ( no Aramaic).
Eventually we have to admit the change of the format of Gospels in the process of translation.
3) But in case of Lord taught prayer ( Mt 6:9-) is different from Disciples prayer ( Luke 11:2). Even in this case, if we follow KJV, the difference is very little while Modern Versions like NIV omits a lot in Luke 11:2-4.
Disciples prayer was given to the disciples only after coming down from the mountain ( maybe inside a house) while Lord Taught Prayer was given to multitude on the mountain.
Lord's prayer is in John 17. The entire chapter of Jn 17 was the prayer by Jesus which should be called Lord's Prayer.
In some cases, indeed Jesus said different words because it was not the same occasion.
Even at the Cross, the title of Jesus was variant.
John says " Jesus the Nazareth, King of the Jews" Luke says " This is the king of the Jews"
Mark says " King of the Jews" Matthew " this is the king of the Jews"
Apparently there are many verses where the statements are different between the writers.
I think the followings are the reasons for that.
1) In many cases, not all, the writers wrote the teachings, not according to Word-to-Word principle, but following the thoughts and main points.
2) Jesus spoke in Hebrew mainly, except in Aramaic in some areas like Deca-polis. Then it was translated into Greek, in the process of translation, the words might have differred depending on the translators.
It is quite controversial whether Gospel Matthew was written in Hebrew first, then translated into Greek later as Papias mentioned.
Apparently, Jesus spoke in Hebrew as He did to Paul ( Acts 26:14) and also mentioned Jot and Tittle which are not found in Greek but in Hebrews ( Mat 5:18) and also His title on the Cross was written in Romans, Greek and Hebrew ( no Aramaic).
Eventually we have to admit the change of the format of Gospels in the process of translation.
3) But in case of Lord taught prayer ( Mt 6:9-) is different from Disciples prayer ( Luke 11:2). Even in this case, if we follow KJV, the difference is very little while Modern Versions like NIV omits a lot in Luke 11:2-4.
Disciples prayer was given to the disciples only after coming down from the mountain ( maybe inside a house) while Lord Taught Prayer was given to multitude on the mountain.
Lord's prayer is in John 17. The entire chapter of Jn 17 was the prayer by Jesus which should be called Lord's Prayer.
In some cases, indeed Jesus said different words because it was not the same occasion.
xdisciplex said:
Well, then you're in trouble, because the Evangelists didn't relate the same events exactly the same way, and the explanations are good and logical. Your problem is that you begin with an erroneous notion of inspiration, then try to prove the Gospels aren't inspired.
If I presented a card which was black on one side and white on the other and then asked two people facing a different side of the card write about what they saw. Would they describe the card I gave them? Theyd would write what thye saw and their description would be accurate.
If two people saw the same accident they would not write the same things. They would write what they saw. Everyone is created differently and would remember what they saw as important.
If two people saw the same accident they would not write the same things. They would write what they saw. Everyone is created differently and would remember what they saw as important.
OK, maybe another angle...
Let's say me and Aaron, for instance, stand on either side of a stop sign. You ask us to describe it. I say, "It's silver, tall, with a post bolted through the middle of it. There's no writing on the sign." Aaron says, "No, you're right about being tall, but it does have writing on it...it says 'stop.' Furthermore, I don't see the post near the top of the sign...it goes behind it. And it's not silver...it's red."
Who's right? We both are. We're looking at the identical item...from differing perspectives. Both of our descriptions are true and accurate. They are just seen from different angles. Were our vantage points reversed, our views would be as well, and still be true.
The Gospel writers wrote about the life of God's Son from four distinct viewpoints. Thus, four different, yet true, accounts.
BTW, Aaron, thanks for joining me on that analogy. Your check's in the mail.
EDIT: gb, I totally missed your post when writing this. Sorry to pretty much duplicate your answer. Great Minds THink Alike.! :applause: :applause:
Let's say me and Aaron, for instance, stand on either side of a stop sign. You ask us to describe it. I say, "It's silver, tall, with a post bolted through the middle of it. There's no writing on the sign." Aaron says, "No, you're right about being tall, but it does have writing on it...it says 'stop.' Furthermore, I don't see the post near the top of the sign...it goes behind it. And it's not silver...it's red."
Who's right? We both are. We're looking at the identical item...from differing perspectives. Both of our descriptions are true and accurate. They are just seen from different angles. Were our vantage points reversed, our views would be as well, and still be true.
The Gospel writers wrote about the life of God's Son from four distinct viewpoints. Thus, four different, yet true, accounts.
BTW, Aaron, thanks for joining me on that analogy. Your check's in the mail.
EDIT: gb, I totally missed your post when writing this. Sorry to pretty much duplicate your answer. Great Minds THink Alike.! :applause: :applause:
Last edited:
tragic_pizza
New Member
If you'ree saying what I think you're saying, I enthusiastically agree.Claudia_T said:
Why do they have to 'be'?
What does your mentor say?
:saint:
Maybe this is why you cannot find a mentor . . . you did say that pastors got tired of your questions . . . I can see why they got tired of your questions . . . your questions are blown by the latest wind of change and not by the Eternal God and His Eternal Truth revealed in His Eternal Word.
What does your mentor say?
:saint:
Maybe this is why you cannot find a mentor . . . you did say that pastors got tired of your questions . . . I can see why they got tired of your questions . . . your questions are blown by the latest wind of change and not by the Eternal God and His Eternal Truth revealed in His Eternal Word.
xdisciplex said: