Does KJV-only teaching affect or harm Bible doctrine of Sanctification?

[Marooncat79]

1. My Laws are irrelevant as is the KJVO position

2. In the OT, the saints were not commanded to take the Gospel to the ends of the Earth

3. If you must learn English first then it is NOT of grace, but of merits

4. There are tens of thousands of churches in Korea, China, Germany, Latino, Russian etc. reportedly, there are over 100,000,000 Christian’s in China. I am not looking it up, if that number is wrong, please let me know

@John of Japan can address Non-English Churches there

quite a number of would you agree?

5. Should they preach to them in the vernacular, or English?

6. Again, should we make them learn English?

7. God has people from every tribe, kindred, tongue, and nation. Agree?

8. Your Acts 28:28 passage refutes your question of why would God send?

You then sum it all up with proclaiming Gods sovereignty, majesty, wisdom, power, and Providence (by the way that is called worship) All of which I have heard no one on here challenge. Maybe I misread somewhere?

you do know that the KJV translators specifically stated that it was an imperfect translation in the preface -correct?

they stated that they did as best they could

again, what Doctrine, or Teachings are threatened by those who do not espouse the KJVO position? Here, I will answer for you- None!

 

[Marooncat79]

9. Since we as NT Xians have been commanded to go forth shouldn’t we learn the language of that people group? That’s what missiologists say?v we have been commanded to go forth

10. Then you have tongues in Acts. Why did they hear the Gospel “in their own Language”. See English was a late comer and the KJV position as well to this thing called Cianity.

you can argue specific dates but no one on here can speak early English, Middle English is somewhat better.

Christians in the colonies, and in England did not use the KJV. They used other translations. Was their faith defective?

Why arent those translations embraced since they were earlier and that is a criteria for which manuscript to embrace in translation?

The men who have espoused this position in the past meant well, but they were seriously misguided.

 

[JD731]

2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

4. There are tens of thousands of churches in Korea, China, Germany, Latino, Russian etc. reportedly, there are over 100,000,000 Christian’s in China. I am not looking it up, if that number is wrong, please let me know

@John of Japan can address Non-English Churches there

quite a number of would you agree?

I have hindsight. Two thousand years of church history and free nations are only now translating bibles in those languages. This proves that people can become Christians without a bible in their own language but they cannot become Christians without a missionary witness.

English speakers have about 100 translations and paraphrases proving liberty can be, and often is, abused.

 

[Marooncat79]

think the critics on the board mostly knows about what other critics write and say but you will not ever hear from them how good our God is and wonderful it is to be saved.

1. The Churches that I and several people I know always have a season of Thanksgiving prayer during worship. Yes, always. As in every time we meet.

shouldn’t we? As you correctly pose, salvation is the greatest gift God could ever give to anyone. We as believers should understand our position before God prior to conversion.

2. Yes, ai have been a member of Churches that have NOT had prayers of Thanksgiving during services. I personally found those Churches very shallow, and presumptive, but as you correctly point out, I am certainly NOT God in any way

it’s been great chatting. I trust that we all have grown in this chat. I certainly have been reminded of much while at the same time saddened that we must argue against something that should be understood by all.

I can guarantee you that those who are multi lingual are certainly not KJVO. Those who are multi lingual understand translation.

It is mostly an American phenom since most Americans are uni-lingual (is that even a word. Lol). Sadly, we have exported it to a few places.

I encourage you to trust in God and the power of His might!! Psalm 20:7 KJV. It’s awesome

 

[Marooncat79]

Again, we must ask ourselves what are we doing ministry wise to further the Kingdom!!

And having a KJVO Ministry is NOT It!!

 

[Marooncat79]

For those of you unsure what I mean by a season of Thanksgiving prayer.

let me explain it this way-

we actually have public prayer time which is designated for a specific purpose

prayer of adoration - tell God How great and glorious He is and how His Word and Church will stand forever because of His faithfulness and Providence etc.

Prayer of Confession- Yes we prayer for forgiveness of specific sins that the whole congregation may be involved in ie drunkenness, immorality etc but never ever call out specific names. Forgive us for the sin of Adultery. Forgive us for anger and bitterness

Prayer of Thanksgiving - there so so much to thank Him for ie our families, our children, that we live in a land unscarred by war. There is much to be Thankful for right? Salvation!

Prayer of Illumination. Asking God to open our hearts to the preaching of the Word. Usually just before the actual sermon. Sometimes combined with Adoration

prayer of Supplication. Asking God for Stuff to heal America, Aunt Sally’s toe, to restore broken homes and hearts


Yes we pray all of these in Sunday each service. In small groups, we combine a few and have 2-3.

Jesus did say that His House was a House of Prayer

 

[JD731]

9. Since we as NT Xians have been commanded to go forth shouldn’t we learn the language of that people group? That’s what missiologists say?v we have been commanded to go forth

The apostles were commanded to go preach but Christians have a better motivation. It is love for God and charity towards the unsaved. See 1 Cor 13. Are you able to quote a command to go preach that is directly aimed at you? Witnessing and living for God is assumed by the scriptures because the God of love lives in our hearts. Love is not defined as an itchy feeling that you can"t scratch.

Romans 5:5
And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

 

[Marooncat79]

Regardless

Christian’s are to go forward with the Gospel

you can choose the verb

 

[JD731]

No, that is the point of this thread. God gets to choose and he does not need to choose 100 times.

 

[Marooncat79]

The apostles were commanded to go preach but Christians have a better motivation. It is love for God and charity towards the unsaved. See 1 Cor 13. Are you able to quote a command to go preach that is directly aimed at you? Witnessing and living for God is assumed by the scriptures because the God of love lives in our hearts. Love is not defined as an itchy feeling that you can"t scratch.

Romans 5:5
And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

That proves your point in no way

 

[JD731]

That proves your point in no way

If you are right then it is an invalid point and cannot be proven.

 

[John of Japan]

1. My Laws are irrelevant as is the KJVO position

2. In the OT, the saints were not commanded to take the Gospel to the ends of the Earth

Marooncat79 has done a good job here on both of these posts. I'll comment.

In the OT dispensation of law, the nations were to come to Israel for salvation, and many foreigners did. The Jews were to encourage this. Those who did not convert all the way were called God-fearers, and those who became Jews were proselytes. I love Psalm 96, which is not a Great Commission, but says,
1 O sing unto the LORD a new song: sing unto the LORD, all the earth.
2 Sing unto the LORD, bless his name; shew forth his salvation from day to day.
3 Declare his glory among the heathen, his wonders among all people.
4 For the LORD is great, and greatly to be praised: he is to be feared above all gods.

3. If you must learn English first then it is NOT of grace, but of merits

Good point.

4. There are tens of thousands of churches in Korea, China, Germany, Latino, Russian etc. reportedly, there are over 100,000,000 Christian’s in China. I am not looking it up, if that number is wrong, please let me know

@John of Japan can address Non-English Churches there

quite a number of would you agree?

Absolutely correct. Christianity is growing at a huge rate in Asia, especially China and Korea (not so much in strongly Buddhist Tibet, Japan, Thailand). It is naive to think English speaking countries are still the center of God's work in the world. In fact, that is limiting the awesome power of our God, IMO. The Holy Spirit

5. Should they preach to them in the vernacular, or English?

6. Again, should we make them learn English?

The ideal, and what glorifies God the most, is that the people groups of the world each hear the Gospel in their own heart language. There are places in the world, though, where English is the lingua franca, taught in the schools (parts of Africa and New Guinea). But God's perfect plan is that each people group hears the Gospel in their own heart language. The Great Commission makes this clear ("all the world," "every nation," etc.).

7. God has people from every tribe, kindred, tongue, and nation. Agree?

Absolutely!
"For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue [meaning "language", not that thing in your mouth--JoJ] shall confess to God" (Rom. 14:11).

"And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people" (Rev. 14:6).

8. Your Acts 28:28 passage refutes your question of why would God send?

I agree. "The Gentiles" (literally "the nations") received the Gospel in their own language in the book of Acts.

You then sum it all up with proclaiming Gods sovereignty, majesty, wisdom, power, and Providence (by the way that is called worship) All of which I have heard no one on here challenge. Maybe I misread somewhere?

Very strange statements by your opponent in the debate. Not germane.

you do know that the KJV translators specifically stated that it was an imperfect translation in the preface -correct?

they stated that they did as best they could

Very true.

again, what Doctrine, or Teachings are threatened by those who do not espouse the KJVO position? Here, I will answer for you- None!

Absolutely correct. I taught Bible, Greek, theology, etc. in two different Japanese Bible schools using the Shinkaiyaku (the best translation available), based on the NASB, and never found a single Bible doctrine I could not teach from that translation.

 

[John of Japan]

9. Since we as NT Xians have been commanded to go forth shouldn’t we learn the language of that people group? That’s what missiologists say?v we have been commanded to go forth

10. Then you have tongues in Acts. Why did they hear the Gospel “in their own Language”. See English was a late comer and the KJV position as well to this thing called Cianity.

Many missionaries, missiologists, and Christian linguists refer to the miracle of the "tongues" (languages) in Acts 2 as "the reversal of Babel." In other words, God accomplished His awesome purpose of reconciling people of every language to Him through the miraculous languages given in the passage. This gives a clear pattern for the rest of the Church Age: we are to reach people in their own heart language, since God clearly gave that example at Pentecost. Any other position glorifies ignorance and an insular attitude.

you can argue specific dates but no one on here can speak early English, Middle English is somewhat better.

Christians in the colonies, and in England did not use the KJV. They used other translations. Was their faith defective?

Why arent those translations embraced since they were earlier and that is a criteria for which manuscript to embrace in translation?

This is all provably true.

The men who have espoused this position in the past meant well, but they were seriously misguided.

As a teacher of church history, I believe that the more English and the English Bible is emphasized, the less the Gospel goes forth. As I clearly taught in my recent thread on KJV Onlyism and Missions, there are many KJVO people who love missions and get the Gospel out to the world. However, the more one seeks to defend the KJV, the less the Great Commission is followed. I gave plenty of examples of this phenomenon.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

1. My Laws are irrelevant as is the KJVO position
2. In the OT, the saints were not commanded to take the Gospel to the ends of the Earth

Tue/

3. If you must learn English first then it is NOT of grace, but of merits

No, that doesn't follow, because "merit vs. grace" is not in discussion here.

4. There are tens of thousands of churches in Korea, China, Germany, Latino, Russian etc. reportedly, there are over 100,000,000 Christian’s in China. I am not looking it up, if that number is wrong, please let me know

Yeah, probably, and good for you...but, the statement about trying to make it a grace vs. works issue was wrong, ill thought out and stupid.

5. Should they preach to them in the vernacular, or English?

Literally, EVERYONE on this board..
EVERYONE wants you to preach to them in their vernacular.

6. Again, should we make them learn English?

No one on this board thinks we should make them.
Only Logos and John of Japan will deceitfully suggest to you that there are persons who insist on that.

7. God has people from every tribe, kindred, tongue, and nation. Agree?

Every KJVO on this board knows that, agrees with it, and asserts it.
John of Japan will pretend it's not the case,
So will Logos.

you do know that the KJV translators specifically stated that it was an imperfect translation in the preface -correct?

Yeah, everyone knows that...
Also, are you smart enough to realize that statement could also be false?
They COULD have made a perfect translation without even realizing it...
Neither Logos nor John has ever made that obvious and rather elementary point...
But, it's logically possible.

they stated that they did as best they could

Of course they did, they might have been perfect...
But, they were humble enough not to assume or to claim perfection.
again, what Doctrine, or Teachings are threatened by those who do not espouse the KJVO position? Here, I will answer for you- None![/QUOTE]
AGAIN....
Which ones ARE!!!!!
Are KLJVO's asking you to give up salvation by grace through faith???
Nope.
Are KJVO's asking you to abandon the deity of Christ?
Nope.
Are KJVO's asking you to give up believer's baptism by immersion?
Nope.
Are KJVO's asking you to give up your distiction between the Local and Universal Church?
Nope.
Are KJVO's asking you to give up....say....Calvinism (if you are one).
Nope.....it's consistent with that.
Are KJVO's asking you to give up Arminianism (if you are one).
Nope.......It's consistent with that as well.

KJVO is the MOST IRRELEVANT and Harmeless view Ever to grace the Evangelical stage.

John of Japan is just angry because he thinks First Baptist Hammond owes him money.
Anyone who isn't an idiot can differentiate between Institutions like F.B.C. Hammond and everything else...
John just doesn't care to, because he thinks they owe him money...

He's probably right. They're obvious crooks.
It's not their KJVO view that makes them crooks...
It's that they're crooks that makes them crooks......They could worship Logos...they'd still be crooks.

He now takes it out on everyone.....

I Personally know so many KJVO's that give up to and BEYOND
30-40% of their income to support international missionaries.

Missionaries like John..
And he does NOTHING! but trash-mouth their sacrifices.
It makes me sick.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

..

 

[Marooncat79]

Wow

 

[HeirofSalvation]

Wow

Wow is right.....
but, fair.

I KNOW how much some people make (have been invited to their homes)......and know how much they give.

I know NUMEROUS KJVO churches where at least 30% of the income from their Church body goes right into the Mission field.
It's not like the average S.B.C. church where 80% is consumed by staff.

 

[Marooncat79]

..

have you spoken with John privately about all of this?

it seems to be full of venom and vinegar

I hope I am misreading it

 

[JD731]

Marooncat79 has done a good job here on both of these posts. I'll comment.

In the OT dispensation of law, the nations were to come to Israel for salvation, and many foreigners did. The Jews were to encourage this. Those who did not convert all the way were called God-fearers, and those who became Jews were proselytes. I love Psalm 96, which is not a Great Commission, but says,
1 O sing unto the LORD a new song: sing unto the LORD, all the earth.
2 Sing unto the LORD, bless his name; shew forth his salvation from day to day.
3 Declare his glory among the heathen, his wonders among all people.
4 For the LORD is great, and greatly to be praised: he is to be feared above all gods.

No, Marooncat79 did not do a good job. And becoming a Jew did not save anybody. And Psalm 96 is a millennial psalm.

Absolutely correct. Christianity is growing at a huge rate in Asia, especially China and Korea

,
I pray you are right about this.

It is naive to think English speaking countries are still the center of God's work in the world. In fact, that is limiting the awesome power of our God, IMO. The Holy Spirit

Well, the English have more Bible translations than anyone and probably as many Greek speakers as Greece. But you are probably right if you are insinuating that all this has done is watered down Christianity in the West. I have read the prophecies of the end of the church age, one of which, "for the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears, and they will turn away their ears from the truth and be turned unto fables." But that is in the KJV and who is going to take that seriously?

I agree. "The Gentiles" (literally "the nations") received the Gospel in their own language in the book of Acts.

We are not told what language Peter preached to Cornelius in Acts 10 when the door of faith was first opened to the gentiles in 40 AD, but a good guess would be Latin. Cornelius was an Italian and there were other members of his household present who were also saved that day. Latin was one of the languages that Pilate wrote his message which he placed on the cross that identified Jesus as the King of the Jews.
John 19:20
This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.

Very strange statements by your opponent in the debate. Not germane.

I am sure there are things that are strange to some of you.

Note;

The event in Acts 2 was on the day of Pentecost, a Jewish feast day. It had prophetic significance and a promise of God to his people Israel was being fulfilled. The law of God can now be written in their hearts by the Spirit as promised and who will indwell them when they believe in Jesus Christ and are identified with him by confession and baptism. The earthly ministry of Jesus Christ prepared them to believe he is the Son of God and now they must believe he died as their sacrifice to take away their sins. More than a million of Israel showed up for the feast as usual but only about 13 thousand were saved. This had nothing to do with the nations. The northern kingdom of Israel had been dispersed from their land in 722 BC by the Assyrians but they still came to the temple in Jerusalem for the three annual festivals. There is context to the scriptures. This is a new covenant for Israel and a transition from the old covenant of law is under way. Stop and think.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

Wow

I'm not KJVO anymore....
But, they are (often) the most wonderful and amazing Christians you'll ever meet.
Wrong, perhaps.....
So what?
We're all entitled to be wrong on something!

I have personally witnessed their sacrifices on behalf of the gospel.

I'm embarrassed that I never measure up to it.