does mental illness diqualify you from being a leader in the church?

Disagree: Depression CAN come from a Spiritual problem.

There are numerous biblical references to depression, one of the human race's most common and distressing afflictions. It is likely that the first humans to experience depression were Adam and Eve, after they sinned against God.


Examples of people in the Bible who suffered bouts of depression

Abraham (Genesis 15)

Jonah (Jonah 4)

Job (Book of Job)

Elijah (1 Kings 19)

King Saul (I Samuel 16:14-23, etc.)

Jeremiah (Book of Jeremiah)

David (Psalms 6, 13, 18, 23, 25, 27, 31, 32, 34, 37-40, 42-43, 46, 51, 55, 62-63, 69, 71, 73, 77, 84, 86, 90-91, 94-95, 103-104, 107, 110, 116, 118, 121, 123-124, 130, 138, 139, 141-143, 146-147)

King David -- "I am troubled, I am bowed down greatly; I go mourning all the day long. ...I groan because of the turmoil of my heart."
-Psalm 38:6,8 (NKJV) (read David's prayer)


Depression due to guilt

CAIN, son of Adam (having disobeyed God)
"Then the LORD said to Cain, 'Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must master it.'"
-Genesis 4:6-7 (NIV)
DAVID, King of Israel (having committed adultery was depressed until he confessed his sin)
"When I kept silent, my bones grew old Through my groaning all the day long. For day and night Your hand was heavy upon me; My vitality was turned into the drought of summer. Selah.
-Psalm 32:3-4

Release from depression caused by guilt came from confession and seeking God's forgiveness...

"For I said in my haste, 'I am cut off from before Your eyes'; Nevertheless You heard the voice of my supplications When I cried out to You. Oh, love the LORD, all you His saints! For the LORD preserves the faithful, And fully repays the proud person. Be of good courage, And He shall strengthen your heart, All you who hope in the LORD. Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, Whose sin is covered. Blessed is the man to whom the LORD does not impute iniquity, And in whose spirit there is no deceit. ...I acknowledged my sin to You, And my iniquity I have not hidden. I said, "I will confess my transgressions to the LORD," And You forgave the iniquity of my sin. Selah.
-Psalm 31:22 - 32:2, 32:5 (NKJV)


"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
-1 John 1:9 (NKJV)



David's humble prayer for forgiveness (an example for us all)
"Have mercy upon me, O God, According to Your lovingkindness; According to the multitude of Your tender mercies, Blot out my transgressions. Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity, And cleanse me from my sin. For I acknowledge my transgressions, And my sin is always before me. Against You, You only, have I sinned, And done this evil in Your sight; That You may be found just when You speak, And blameless when You judge. Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me.

Behold, You desire truth in the inward parts, And in the hidden part You will make me to know wisdom. Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean; Wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow. Make me hear joy and gladness, That the bones You have broken may rejoice. Hide Your face from my sins, And blot out all my iniquities. Create in me a clean heart, O God, And renew a steadfast spirit within me.

Do not cast me away from Your presence, And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me. Restore to me the joy of Your salvation, And uphold me by Your generous Spirit. Then I will teach transgressors Your ways, And sinners shall be converted to You. ...For You do not desire sacrifice, or else I would give it; You do not delight in burnt offering. The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit, A broken and a contrite heart; These, O God, You will not despise."
-Psalm 51:1-13, 16-17 (NKJV)


When you're depressed, place your hope in God.

"Why are you cast down, O my soul? And why are you disquieted within me? Hope in God, for I shall yet praise Him For the help of His countenance. ...For You are the God of my strength..."
-Psalm 42:5, 43:2 (NKJV)

"Trust in the LORD with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding; In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct your paths."
-Proverbs 3:5-6 (NKJV)



"Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit."
-Romans 15:13 (NKJV)
"Rejoice in the Lord always. Again I will say, rejoice! Let your gentleness be known to all men. The Lord is at hand. Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy; meditate on these things.
-Philippians 4:4-8 (NKJV)

"Therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you in due time, casting all your care upon Him, for He cares for you."
-1 Peter 5:6-7


Although things may be difficult, Christians can avoid deep depression.

"We are hard pressed on every side, yet not crushed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed... Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day. For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal."

-2 Corinthians 4:8-9, 16-18 (NIV)

Remember what Jesus Christ went through for us. Remember what the apostle Paul experienced, yet remained focused on the eternal rather than the temporary. When we maintain faith and keep our focus on God's love and the hope He has given us for eternity, Christians can weather the storms of life. It can be done.

Paul -- "...I have worked much harder, been in prison more frequently, been flogged more severely, and been exposed to death again and again. Five times I received from the Jews the forty lashes minus one. Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was stoned, three times I was shipwrecked, I spent a night and a day in the open sea, I have been constantly on the move. I have been in danger from rivers, in danger from bandits, in danger from my own countrymen, in danger from Gentiles; in danger in the city, in danger in the country, in danger at sea; and in danger from false brothers. I have labored and toiled and have often gone without sleep; I have known hunger and thirst and have often gone without food; I have been cold and naked. Besides everything else, I face daily the pressure of my concern for all the churches."
-2 Corinthians 11:23b-28 (NIV)

"I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me."
-Galatians 2:20 (NKJV)


When the Israelites were depressed, God called them to put their faith into action.

"But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint." (Isaiah 40:31)

"The spirit of a man will sustain him in sickness, But who can bear a broken spirit?"
-Proverbs 18:14

"I am laid low in the dust; preserve my life according to your word."
-Psalm 119:25

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/depression-bible.html

 

Just two quick thought re paranoid schizophrenia:

Just because you are paranoid does mean they are not out to get you, and

I’m not schizophrenic. Me neither.


(And yes, I do understand that MPD-Multiple Personality Disorder is not the same of schizophrenia.)

Re the topic, Diane T, although “depression CAN come from a Spiritual problem” such is not always the case as other have suggested.

Sometimes there are organic causes for depression such as TIAs in the mood affective areas of the brain. Severe depression with an organic basis can be effectively treated with medication. Are you guys suggesting that someone who effectively manages depression with medication is therefore unfit to be an elder/pastor?

I hope not. Might as well suggest that a diabetic who depends on medication does not have sufficient faith to be healed and is therefore unfit for ministry. Not all that great a stretch from one to the other.


DianeT, see the following link on the site you referenced as well....

“Is it right to use antidepressant drugs? Or is faith enough to solve the problem?

Chemical Imbalances

“Some cases of depression may be caused by chemical imbalances. If that is the cause, then antidepressant drugs may be the answer. God has allowed mankind to learn about many medical tools, and He sometimes uses medicine to heal. There may also be some cases of depression so severe that medications are necessary to bring the sufferer to the place where they can tackle some of the other issues; such cases might require medication, at least temporarily. I know of no Scripture that forbids such use.” From - http://www.christiananswers.net/q-acb/acb-f001.html#2

All,

My experience has been that some mental psychological issues are related to sin. But many are not. The nouthetic approach to mental illness is no doubt of some value. It does not effectively address instances where there may be organic factors causing or contributing the problem. To label “depression” as a disqualifier for ministry is a simplistic and somewhat Pharisaical approach, IMHO.

Re David’s depression being related to his sin against Uriah and Bathsheba there can be little doubt that sin and its consequences frequently lead to depression. However, if you will study the rest of the Psalms, it is readily evident that David’s bouts with depression could not always be limited to matters of sin in his own life. Frequently it was a very natural reaction to the circumstances of life. It is one thing to suggest that pastors should learn to deal with these normal emotional fluctuations that are part of living in a sin-cursed world and ministering to sinful people; it is quite another to suggest that pastors should be immune to any and all struggles with depression. David had these struggles all of his life! Yet, God did not remove him from being king.

Just my 2 cents on the matter.

 

If you wanted someone perfect, get Jesus.

Oh yeah, He already should be "THE" leader in the church.

 

Some examples of delusional "Christian" leaders: David Koresh,
Jim Jones, Sun Myung Moon.

HankD

 

Did Moon claim to be "Christian"? Can't recall.

 

That's why I put quote marks around all those names.
My point has to do with the delusions.

Rev. Dr. Sun Myung Moon, Declaring the Era of the Peace Kingdom
In an address to the United States Congress
March 23, 2004.

Found online in the public domain at :
http://www.familyfed.org/board/uboard.asp?id=ffwpu_news&skin=board_urim_simple&color=eng&page=1&u_no=516

HankD

 

Did Moon claim to
be Christ? Can't recall

 

Great post, Diane!

 

How many people in the Bible had sucidal thoughts, yet God used them anyway?

 

Ben W,

Not really sure I can recall any with suicidal thoughts that God used? Can you name any?

 

My only concern with engaging a person with a mental disorder, whatever the cause, it that someone accompany them for their own protection from those who would falsely accuse them of impropriety.

Some can do a marvellous job and feel useful...why even Mr. Spurgeon was used, though he suffered serious bouts of depression after the great fire in London.

Cheers,

Jim

 

I think we'd also agree that ANY of life's problems can be due to not being right with God as well. Right?

 

How about Jonah?

Jonah 4:3 "Please kill me Lord; I'd rather be dead than alive when nothing that I told them happens".

Johnah 4:8 "Then when the sun was hot God ordered a scorching east wind to blow on Jonah, and the sun beat down upon his head until he grew faint and wished to die. For he said, Death is better than this!"

 

My personal opinion is that these are not matters of depression. Jonah 4:3 is more like deep compassion for the people and feeling of loss. It may also be feelings of fear for thier souls as he is convicted by the Holy Spirit.
With regard to Jonah 4:8, I believe that this is a picture of suffering for Christ.
The reason that I state that these do not appear as depression to me is because I am defining depression as is done today. I would associate the first more with bereavement, and the second more with torment.

 

I think we'd also agree that ANY of life's problems can be due to not being right with God as well. Right? </font>[/QUOTE]The word "can" validates your statement for me. It is important, however, that we pray for discernment to understand the root of our suffering, as some is due to the psychosocial, some to the physiological, and some to the physical, etc. It is too easy at times to pass the cause of illness or disorders to God, which can mislead un-believers to blame Him. Also, we must understand that God does not tempt us as Satan will. He will Test us that we might be made stronger or come to know Him. The Jonah example in 4:8 was a fair one, as were the limits that God placed on Satan with Job.

 

Lamentations 3:1 I am the man who has seen affliction by the rod of His wrath. 2 He has led me and made me walk In darkness and not in light. 3 Surely He has turned His hand against me Time and time again throughout the day. 4 He has aged my flesh and my skin, And broken my bones. 5 He has besieged me And surrounded me with bitterness and woe. 6 He has set me in dark places Like the dead of long ago. 7 He has hedged me in so that I cannot get out; He has made my chain heavy. 8 Even when I cry and shout, He shuts out my prayer. 9 He has blocked my ways with hewn stone; He has made my paths crooked. 10 He has been to me a bear lying in wait, Like a lion in ambush. 11 He has turned aside my ways and torn me in pieces; He has made me desolate. 12 He has bent His bow And set me up as a target for the arrow. 13 He has caused the arrows of His quiver To pierce my loins.* 14 I have become the ridicule of all my people-- Their taunting song all the day. 15 He has filled me with bitterness, He has made me drink wormwood. 16 He has also broken my teeth with gravel, And covered me with ashes. 17 You have moved my soul far from peace; I have forgotten prosperity. 18 And I said, "My strength and my hope Have perished from the Lord." 19 Remember my affliction and roaming, The wormwood and the gall. 20 My soul still remembers And sinks within me.

21 This I recall to my mind, Therefore I have hope. 22 Through the Lord's mercies we are not consumed, Because His compassions fail not. 23 They are new every morning; Great is Your faithfulness. 24 "The Lord is my portion," says my soul, "Therefore I hope in Him!"

If this passage ended with verse 20 not only would Jeremiah be due pity, but all of us who call on the Name of the Lord would be due pity. But PRAISE GOD, it does not end in verse 20. When taken as a whole this passage is wonderful. It shows that we as children of God are going to suffer and have bad times, but that we need not be concerned about the outcome, because our God's compassions never fail! Great is His faithfulness. Oh what freedom we can have when we say as the prophet did: "The LORD is my portion; therefore I will wait for him."
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ThoughtstoPonder/message/15

 

Well, let's take a look. Bipolar disorder (or manic depression) is characterized by "extreme changes in mood, thought, energy and behavior."*

The symptoms are as follows:

For the high's:</font>

• Increased physical and mental activity and energy</font>
• Heightened mood, exaggerated optimism and self-confidence</font>
• Excessive irritability, aggressive behavior</font>
• Decreased need for sleep without experiencing fatigue</font>
• Grandiose delusions, inflated sense of self-importance</font>
• Racing speech, racing thoughts, flight of ideas</font>
• Impulsiveness, poor judgment, distractibility</font>
• Reckless behavior</font>
• In the most severe cases, delusions and hallucinations</font>

For the low's:
</font>

• Prolonged sadness or unexplained crying spells</font>
• Significant changes in appetite and sleep patterns</font>
• Irritability, anger, worry, agitation, anxiety</font>
• Pessimism, indifference</font>
• Loss of energy, persistent lethargy</font>
• Feelings of guilt, worthlessness</font>
• Inability to concentrate, indecisiveness</font>
• Inability to take pleasure in former interests, social withdrawal</font>
• Unexplained aches and pains</font>
• Recurring thoughts of death or suicide</font>

Regardless of the cause, all of these disqualify a person from any kind of leadership. The thing to note is that all these symptoms are behaviors and attitudes that are out of control.

A vital criterion of one who is qualified for office in the Church is sobriety or self-control. If one must use drugs to treat behavioral or attitudinal problems then one is not self-controlled.

* http://www.dbsalliance.org/info/bipolar.html </font>[/QUOTE]Agree with Aaron here. I would only add that, IMO, this is not an issue of social justice, but rather, a matter of following the Biblical mandates for spiritual leaders in the church and doing what is best for the Church. There may be times when depression and mental illness is a consequence of sin, but just because someone does have problems like this does not make them less spiritual or mean it is automatically because of sin. Someone is not less of a Christian because they don't meet the qualifications or have a calling for the ministry. They simply have a different role to fill as a Christian.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Well, let's take a look. Bipolar disorder (or manic depression) is characterized by "extreme changes in mood, thought, energy and behavior."*

The symptoms are as follows:

For the high's:</font>

• Increased physical and mental activity and energy</font>
• Heightened mood, exaggerated optimism and self-confidence</font>
• Excessive irritability, aggressive behavior</font>
• Decreased need for sleep without experiencing fatigue</font>
• Grandiose delusions, inflated sense of self-importance</font>
• Racing speech, racing thoughts, flight of ideas</font>
• Impulsiveness, poor judgment, distractibility</font>
• Reckless behavior</font>
• In the most severe cases, delusions and hallucinations</font>

For the low's:
</font>

• Prolonged sadness or unexplained crying spells</font>
• Significant changes in appetite and sleep patterns</font>
• Irritability, anger, worry, agitation, anxiety</font>
• Pessimism, indifference</font>
• Loss of energy, persistent lethargy</font>
• Feelings of guilt, worthlessness</font>
• Inability to concentrate, indecisiveness</font>
• Inability to take pleasure in former interests, social withdrawal</font>
• Unexplained aches and pains</font>
• Recurring thoughts of death or suicide</font>

Regardless of the cause, all of these disqualify a person from any kind of leadership. The thing to note is that all these symptoms are behaviors and attitudes that are out of control.

A vital criterion of one who is qualified for office in the Church is sobriety or self-control. If one must use drugs to treat behavioral or attitudinal problems then one is not self-controlled.

* http://www.dbsalliance.org/info/bipolar.html </font>[/QUOTE]This attitude is straight out of the dark ages. Unfortunately your post is misleading since it omits the introductory paragraph to the reference.

"Bipolar disorder (also known as manic depression) is a treatable illness marked by extreme changes in mood, thought, energy and behavior. It is not a character flaw or a sign of personal weakness.  Bipolar disorder is also known as manic depression because a person’s mood can alternate between the "poles" mania (highs) and depression (lows). This change in mood or "mood swing" can last for hours, days weeks or months."

Also unfortunately even this information is flawed since the mood swings can be very mild. However, the salient point is that "Bipolar disorder is a treatable illness."

 

Even with your information, OldRegular, I do not think a Pastor can be Manic-Depressive or Paranoid Schizophrenic and effectively pastor the sheep. That's not to say he cannot minister in other ways.

 

My opinion is that he can. Here are some examples of famous leaders who had depression. Remember that up until the lat 30 years or so medication was not available for treatment.

Abraham Lincoln
Theodore Roosevelt
Mahatma Gandhi
Hortaio Nelson Viscount
King George III
William Pitt
Winston Churchill
Alexander Hamilton
Yitzhak Rabin
Oliver Cromwell

Robert E. Lee

In addition, there are a large number of current SBC ministers who have bouts with depression.

http://www.acfnewsource.org/religion/wounded_heroes.html
_________________________________________________

Southern Baptist ministers developed a program to address the toll of depression in their ranks.

Many conservative Christians consider depression to be evidence that a person is "not right with God." Yet an estimated one third of the staff and clergy of the 62,000 Southern Baptist churches suffer from depression because their jobs are so demanding. Their problems have historically been hidden or ignored by their denomination but that is now changing. The Southern Baptist Convention created an outreach program to help these troubled pastors.

For years, the Southern Baptists ignored the problem because they believed depression could be eliminated simply through a greater devotion to God. Rev. Freddy Gage, a very prominent minister, felt however that depression among clergy had to be addressed. After losing his job when his congregation found out about his depression, he devoted his life to helping other pastors in his denomination who suffered from the same disease.

Gage created Wounded Heroes, a five day program for pastors and their wives. Afflicted pastors and their wives receive psychological counseling and engage deep spiritual reflection. Facilitators use a combination of standard psychotherapy and Scripture. The program is free to participants, including all transportation costs. The Wounded Heroes ministry hopes that these efforts will mitigate the effects of stressful living and lower the burnout rate amongst their clergy.
UPDATE
The program is now called the Wounded Ministers Ministry. At the June 11, 2001 Southern Baptist Convention in New Orleans, organizers will host a lunch for 1,200 ministers to raise awareness about depression in their profession.

CONTACTS

Neal Knierim: Manager
LifeWay Ministries
127 Ninth Ave. North
Nashville, TN 37234
Phone: (615) 251-2490

Dr. Freddy Gage
Box 156
Euless, TX 76039
Phone: (817) 571-6907

LINKS
LifeWay Ministries manages the Wounded Ministers Ministry as part of their Leader Care program.

The Kairos Institute is a resource for depressed clergy.

The Christian Depression Page is a resource for Christians in general who suffer from depression.

Christian Activites Online has a Pastors Corner where ministers can find articles dealing with depression and other illnesses.

Christiananswers.com has a section of their Web site that addresseses the issue of depressed Christians.

The Pastor's Wives' Support Board is a forum for the wives of clergy to discuss the problems and stresses associated with their position.

About.com has a collection of general, informational articles on depression.

Raymond Grosswirth, a theologian from St. Bernard's Institute, discusses the healing value of prayer for the depressed.