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Does OSAS mean freedom to keep on sinning then?
- Thread starter Yeshua1
- Start date
convicted1
Guest
You tell us....please....use book, chapter, and verse....
:type:
:type:
beameup
Member
For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. Rom 8:5-8
The "carnal mind" can lead to legalism and self-righteousness and judgment of others by judging their outward appearance.
The "carnal mind" can also lead to one reverting to the "old man" and his pre-salvation behavior.
Either way, one is not "led by the Spirit", but is led by the flesh. The single biggest cause of this is not being taught how to "rightly divide" scripture.
See below:
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. Rom 8:5-8
The "carnal mind" can lead to legalism and self-righteousness and judgment of others by judging their outward appearance.
The "carnal mind" can also lead to one reverting to the "old man" and his pre-salvation behavior.
Either way, one is not "led by the Spirit", but is led by the flesh. The single biggest cause of this is not being taught how to "rightly divide" scripture.
See below:
NO. And I gotta say, this is a stupid question. Where are you seeing *anyone* preach that once you're saved, you can continue in sin?
Certainly no one regards OSAS as a license to sin--well, almost no one. The problem with the doctrine is that it mitigates sin in people's minds. You commit a sin and, yes, you're sorry. Your conscience bothers you but you don't panic out of fear of going to hell. Some time later maybe you slip up and do the same thing again. This time it doesn't seem quite so bad and maybe you procrastinate seeking forgiveness. Soon it becomes a habit and you think this is something you ought to quit doing but will get around to it one of these days. You are still safe from the fires of hell (and maybe you really are if OSAS is true). And after all isn't that what really counts?
This kind of mindset has to be the result of a belief that you are secure. Here is an analogy that I believe is valid. I have a relative who is allergic to bee and wasp stings. I mean really allergic. If he gets stung it will kill him. He won't go anywhere near where bees and wasps might be found. I, OTOH, don't like to be stung and I won't deliberately provoke a bee or a wasp but I don't try to avoid them at all costs. I have no fear of going near them if they happen to be where I want to go.
So it is with OSAS. The fear of hell fire is stronger than the fear of simply disappointing our Lord. That is why the doctrine of OSAS mitigates sin in people's minds.
This kind of mindset has to be the result of a belief that you are secure. Here is an analogy that I believe is valid. I have a relative who is allergic to bee and wasp stings. I mean really allergic. If he gets stung it will kill him. He won't go anywhere near where bees and wasps might be found. I, OTOH, don't like to be stung and I won't deliberately provoke a bee or a wasp but I don't try to avoid them at all costs. I have no fear of going near them if they happen to be where I want to go.
So it is with OSAS. The fear of hell fire is stronger than the fear of simply disappointing our Lord. That is why the doctrine of OSAS mitigates sin in people's minds.
Did not Paul's teaching in Romans 3:24-5:21 provoke the very same objection echoed by Paul in Romans 6:1?
Would not the words of Christ in John 6:37-39 provoke the very same response?
Maybe a better question might be, "what is the view of justification by those who are so provoked by that doctrine"?
There is no "freedom to sin", whatever one's eternal standing. Sin always has consequences, though they are different for the believer than for the unbeliever.
Apostle paul was hit by his critics as teaching a Gospel of 'easy believism", and yet did he EVER state that while grace is free and a gift, could do what we wanted after getting saved, as many seem to feat OSAS is stating?
Isn't the truth that OSAS roots the very foundation of our justification before God in the finished work of Jesus, NOT anything we do after being saved by him?
Who are these people?
Yeshua1
Where did this happen in scripture???
Where did this happen in scripture???
Yeshua1
It seems that many who hold to LS position would say that they like seasoned croutons on their salad....with thousand island dressing. Some use a different dressing.....but the scriptures are true though!:thumbs:
It seems that many who hold to LS position would say that they like seasoned croutons on their salad....with thousand island dressing. Some use a different dressing.....but the scriptures are true though!:thumbs:
The 5 solas
New Member
Actually, Don, it is not a stupid question. In fact, it is a very relevant question. There seems to be more movement among the Mid Acts Dispensationalists and they are, for all intents and purposes, antinomians. When one embraces MAD it affects not only soteriology but also hamartiology. It does seem outrageous to us but the question is a valid one for those new to the faith who are trying to learn and also for those who might be enticed by the false teaching found in MAD theology.
The 5 solas
New Member
I think that something we need to be careful of is our wording, it is not just semantics. The OSAS crowd does include a large portion of antinomians. Some think that they are saved, checked off that box and they are good to go. Their lives bear no resemblance to Christ and we do not see the fruit of the Spirit either. Good works do not flow out of their faith, but rather, they act no different than they did before their "salvation experience" or very little changes.
I much prefer the phrase, Perseverance of the Saints or Preservation of the Saints. You are most correct when you say that we have this because of the finished work of Christ. He did it for His people and we will be kept to the end. No one can pluck us out of our Father's hand. Our lives should continue to be conformed into the image of the Lord Jesus Christ, our actions should be godly and although we might stumble and fall along the way, God disciplines His own and does not let the elect fall away. Although we have been saved by grace, through faith and it is a gift of God....our response should be to endeavour to live holy lives pleasing to Him.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
I believe Zane Hodges, formerly of Dallas Theological Seminary, could be one of these people.
The 5 solas
Here is calvin on these kind of professors;romans commentary chap7
that Paul refers here only to that office of the law
which was peculiar to the dispensation of Moses; for as far as God has in
the ten commandments taught what is just and right, and given directions
for guiding our life, no abrogation of the law is to be dreamt of; for the will
of God must stand the same forever. We ought carefully to remember that
this is not a release from the righteousness which is taught in the law, but
from its rigid requirements, and from the curse which thence follows. The
law, then, as a rule of life, is not abrogated; but what belongs to it as
opposed to the liberty obtained through Christ, that is, as it requires
absolute perfection: for as we render not this perfection, it binds to under
the sentence of eternal death.
Again, “If we are freed from the bondage of the law for this
end, that we may serve God; then, perversely do they act who hence take
the liberty to indulge in sin; and falsely do they speak who teach, that by
this means loose reins are given to lusts.” Observe, then, that we are then
freed from the law, when God emancipates us from its rigid exactions and
curse, and endues us with his Spirit, through whom we walk in his ways.
:thumbs::wavey::thumbs:
Here is calvin on these kind of professors;romans commentary chap7
that Paul refers here only to that office of the law
which was peculiar to the dispensation of Moses; for as far as God has in
the ten commandments taught what is just and right, and given directions
for guiding our life, no abrogation of the law is to be dreamt of; for the will
of God must stand the same forever. We ought carefully to remember that
this is not a release from the righteousness which is taught in the law, but
from its rigid requirements, and from the curse which thence follows. The
law, then, as a rule of life, is not abrogated; but what belongs to it as
opposed to the liberty obtained through Christ, that is, as it requires
absolute perfection: for as we render not this perfection, it binds to under
the sentence of eternal death.
Again, “If we are freed from the bondage of the law for this
end, that we may serve God; then, perversely do they act who hence take
the liberty to indulge in sin; and falsely do they speak who teach, that by
this means loose reins are given to lusts.” Observe, then, that we are then
freed from the law, when God emancipates us from its rigid exactions and
curse, and endues us with his Spirit, through whom we walk in his ways.
:thumbs::wavey::thumbs:
Think that IF one really has the grasp behind what is meant by OSAS, that freedom now found in Christ enables us to serve Him out of love for him and thanksgiving for what God has done for us, so that means NO EXCUSE to just keep on living as we once did in our sins...
It also allows though for us to still be sinning, and for us to realise that none of us will be the "finished product" until He glorifies us!
I am mainly addressing the common reformed complaint that seems to think that if ones holds to OSAS, that must mean that we see it as OK to keep on sinning without any repenting/remorse, as if we have the 'get out of jail card" now!