Does OSAS survive Galatians 5 and Matt 18?

[BobRyan]

Who are those in Galatians 5 "that were running well"??

Is this yet another case of the "lost standing by faith" and "running well" in Gospel approval - and then being severed from their lost condition?? (a solution that appears to make total mush out of the text just to save OSAS).


Or is this a case of the saved - being severed from Christ and "still saved apart from Christ". (Making the text total mush just to save OSAS).


Or is this a case of the saved - becoming lost?


Gal 5
4 [b]You have been severed from Christ[/b], you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness.
6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.
7 You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth?


===================================

And what about the case of Matt 18 "Forgiveness revoked"?

When Christ said "SO shall My Father do to each one of you IF you do not forgive your brother from your heart?" Was Christ speaking of "forgiving others out of gratitude for the much GREATER full and complete forgiveness that we have received from God "?

If so, then what part of his illustration is being referenced when He says "So shall My Father do to you"??

Is this yet another case of OSAS being flatly contradicted in scripture?

What say you?

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Emily25069]

OSAS is definately not taught in scripture.

It does turn texts into total mush just to save it.

but, I understand why it would be hard to belive that we can fall away, because the bible does promise that God will finish the work He started in us.

It would seem that there are many passages that contradict eachother when it comes to these doctrines.

In my mind, its a mystery that I cannot understand. I trust that God will see me through until the end, but I also will not delude myself into thinking that I dont have to be careful. I need to make sure I am abiding in Christ.

 

[Revmitchell]

I truly feel sorry for those who feel they have to earn their salvation. What a sad life. The motivation behind what a true Christian does is the result of salvation not in order to keep it.

1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1Pe 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

 

[drfuss]

I truly feel sorry for those who feel they have to earn their salvation. What a sad life. The motivation behind what a true Christian does is the result of salvation not in order to keep it.

1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1Pe 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Really. Who are those that feel they have to earn their salvation?

 

[Revmitchell]

Really. Who are those that feel they have to earn their salvation?

Everyone who thinks they have to work to keep it.

 

[Emily25069]

Well then Rev, what do you make of the verses that state that we can fall away?

 

[Revmitchell]

Well then Rev, what do you make of the verses that state that we can fall away?

There aren't any

 

[Doubting Thomas]

I truly feel sorry for those who feel they have to earn their salvation.

Sadly, that is a straw man mischaracterization all too commonly erected hastily by those in the OSAS camp.

1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1Pe 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

I notice you didn't emphasie the "through faith" part (I took the liberty to do that myself). Paul is clear that folks can shipwreck their faith (1 Tim 1:19), believe in vain (1 Cor 15:1-2), and warns Gentile believers, who were currently standing by faith (Rom 11:18-22) that they too could be "cut off" just like the unbelieving Jews if they did not continue in the goodness of God. Jesus Himself said that there are some who believe for a while then fall away (Luke 8:13), and Peter mentions that some have apostasized from the faith (2 Peter 2)

God doesn't keep those who don't remain in Him through faith (John 15:1-6; Romans 11:18-22)

 

[Amy.G]

I am comforted by the experiences of Peter in that even when his faith failed him, God continued to hold him in His hand.


Matthew 14:30-31 But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me. And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?

After Peter's denial of Jesus:

Mr*16:7 But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see him, as he said unto you.


Jesus made sure that Peter knew that He had not abandoned him because of his denial.




John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

 

[drfuss]

Everyone who thinks they have to work to keep it.

Can you name any Christian denomination of some size, that believes you have to work to keep your salvation? Maybe the Catholics?

 

[Jon-Marc]

I thank God that I do not have to pay for my salvation since Christ did it for me. He paid the ENTIRE debt, and all He asks of me is obedience and faithfulness. Well, I often fail Him in those, but He is forgiving. I do NOT lose my salvation when I fail Him, but I do lose my fellowship. That is restored when I confess my sin to Him. If I continue to be out of His will, chastisement will occur. God does not chastise those who aren't His. Not does He disown anyone.

 

[ccrobinson]

Everyone who thinks they have to work to keep it.

Sadly, that is a straw man mischaracterization all too commonly erected hastily by those in the OSAS camp.

Please explain how it's a strawman.

If I can lose my faith, then you're saying that I can lose my faith? If I can lose my faith in God, did I ever have it in the first place?

 

[Emily25069]

This is a very hard topic..

and both sides have very strong arguments.

I agree with both-though I dont understand how they fit together.

My biggest fear has to do with the folks who only think they are saved but our not, because I knew many people who appeared to be walking with the Lord at one period of their lives, but now are so far away from God that it brings tears to my eyes to think about them. But I cant believe that at one time they were abiding in Christ.

It makes me wonder how many of you only think you are saved but will one day go through something that makes you fall down ..

Will you then say "he was never saved if he fell away?"

or will you say

"Too bad John is living like the devil, but he is saved anyway?"

Salvation is living and active. Its a race. God promises to keep up.. but warns us also to not fall away.

How does that make sense?

It doesnt really.

It leaves people with picking sides and explaining things away.

I'd rather not pick sides. i'll just say that both are true.

 

[Eric B]

All these threads on this...
Just like the endless dispute on it years ago.
I think this question should be run under the "Heaven's Gate" test, just like works' righteousness, and see how it passes:
http://www.estore.cartoonworks.com/comfiles/eStore_Pages/16.shtml

 

[Doubting Thomas]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revmitchell
Everyone who thinks they have to work to keep it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doubting Thomas
Sadly, that is a straw man mischaracterization all too commonly erected hastily by those in the OSAS camp.

Please explain how it's a strawman.

First, please accurately cite what I was responding to which was this:

I truly feel sorry for those who feel they have to earn their salvation. What a sad life. The motivation behind what a true Christian does is the result of salvation not in order to keep it.

It is a straw man to suggest those who think salvation can be lost must necessarily think they have to 'earn' their salvation. That is incorrect.

If I can lose my faith, then you're saying that I can lose my faith?

Isn't that a tautology?

If I can lose my faith in God, did I ever have it in the first place?

You cannot lose something you never had in the first place. However, Paul indicates that Gentile believers (those 'standing by faith') could be 'cut off' just like the unbelieving Jews were if they didn't continue therein (Romans 11:18-22)

 

[Revmitchell]

It is not a strawman. If you can lose it you have to work to keep it.

 

[drfuss]

It is not a strawman. If you can lose it you have to work to keep it.

Not true. Works have nothing to do with retaining your salvation in any of the beliefs of the main Christian denominations except the Catholic Church.

Classic Arminians - A Christain can forfeit his salvation only by making a decision to stop trusting Christ.

Wesleyan Arminian - A Christian is in danger of losing his salvation if he continually resists the Holy Spirit in confessing and repenting of known sins.

Works have nothing to do with a Christian retaining his salvation in both Arminian beliefs. Not sure about SDA.

 

[Jedi Knight]

You cannot lose something you never had in the first place. However, Paul indicates that Gentile believers (those 'standing by faith') could be 'cut off' just like the unbelieving Jews were if they didn't continue therein (Romans 11:18-22)

Show where EXACTLY was the time the Jews were cut off and "lost salvation"? They didn't loose salvation...they never attained it! John 1:11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. You cannot loose something YOU or THEY never had.:type:

 

[BobRyan]

Posted by Emily25069
Well then Rev, what do you make of the verses that state that we can fall away?

There aren't any

The reader "notices" the "elephant in the living room" which in this case is the fact that Rev Mitchell is avoiding the OP texts and also has not been all that active on the "Romans 11 totaly debunks OSAS" thread.

in christ,

Bob

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Jon-Marc: I continue to be out of His will, chastisement will occur. God does not chastise those who aren't His.

HP: And what if you fail to respond to chastisement and continue on in sin and disobedience until the end?? What then?