Does RC Sproul hold to Double Predestination?

[evangelist6589]

Listening to him on podcast I have to wonder if he holds to Double Predestination as his word choice sure sounds like it. He has said that man cannot choose God and that man's repentance is all from God. This I do not agree with, as repentance is both of God and man choosing to respond. Yes God does know his own and does bring them to repentance, but man is not a robot and does have a free will. John MacArthur holds a different view and he has said that man does choose to respond and has a fee will. Charles Stanley taught on Predestination the other day as well, and says the same. I know this is a complex topic that no one fully understands and will understand this side of eternity. I know these men are not perfect and do make mistakes in their wording from time to time, and they are learning as well as their positions change as they grow.

 

[12strings]

Listening to him on podcast I have to wonder if he holds to Double Predestination as his word choice sure sounds like it. He has said that man cannot choose God and that man's repentance is all from God. This I do not agree with, as repentance is both of God and man choosing to respond. Yes God does know his own and does bring them to repentance, but man is not a robot and does have a free will. John MacArthur holds a different view and he has said that man does choose to respond and has a fee will. Charles Stanley taught on Predestination the other day as well, and says the same. I know this is a complex topic that no one fully understands and will understand this side of eternity. I know these men are not perfect and do make mistakes in their wording from time to time, and they are learning as well as their positions change as they grow.

I'm fairly certain R.C. DOES hold to double predestination, he refers to it as reprobation. I'm not sure of the nuance he uses there.

As to John MacARthur, he defintely teaches total inability of a sinner to respond unless moved by the holy spirit.

 

[evangelist6589]

I'm fairly certain R.C. DOES hold to double predestination, he refers to it as reprobation. I'm not sure of the nuance he uses there.

As to John MacARthur, he defintely teaches total inability of a sinner to respond unless moved by the holy spirit.

Thats what I believe as well. However the sinner responds after being moved by the spirit, but only God knows when that is.

 

[saturneptune]

So what everyone on this thread is saying is, man in his fallen state does have the ability to choose salvation. God is the Creator, He sets the standards. Without the Holy Spirit, no one comes to salvation. And no, Sproul does not teach double predestination. He teaches that faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God. Hearing is made a reality by the Holy Spirit, both physically and spiritually.

What you all are implying by the double nonsense, is that God is damning people to hell. People send themselves to hell because of sin, and no forgiveness through the blood of Jesus Christ. Your theory, and that is all it is, diminishes God's sovereignty. It also paints a picture of God that is not accurate. If only one person was saved, that is more than anyone deserves.

Believe it or not, posters on this board are not the Creator, and they do not make the rules. Christ said He chose us, we did not choose Him. That is the way it is regardless of what you think about it. No one here understands the mind of God or his purposes.

I do not know why He chose me, but that is not for me to ponder, but be thankful. It is my purpose on this earth to go tell the news to others and let God take care of the rest. By the way, when was the last time you went on visitation or a mission trip, oh great choosers of your destiny?

 

[Herald]

Double presdestination is the belief that God chooses some to life and some to reprobation. Sproul does believe that a person can respond to the salvific work of the Spirit since that is part of the effectual call.

 

[saturneptune]

Double presdestination is the belief that God chooses some to life and some to reprobation. Sproul does believe that a person can respond to the salvific work of the Spirit since that is part of the effectual call.

That is not double predestination. We are not predestined to hell. We go to hell because of unforgiven sin.

 

[church mouse guy]

Sproul probably does. I like him. He stood up to Chuck Colson on ECT--Evangelicals and Catholics Together--in 1994 and said that Catholics should rescind Trent first since they have pronounced all these anathemas against Protestants for saying the just shall live by faith.

I saw a door with an arch on it and on the arch was written:

Matthew 11:28 (KJV) Come unto me, all [ye] that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

So I went in, and on the other side, I saw written:

John 15:16 (KJV) Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you....

 

[Herald]

That is not double predestination. We are not predestined to hell. We go to hell because of unforgiven sin.

Double predestination is supralapsarianism. I'm on my mobile device so I limited in how much I can type. "Single" predestination is infralapsarianism. If you're not familiar with the terms do a search.

 

[annsni]

How about you read what he has to say on it?

http://www.the-highway.com/DoublePredestination_Sproul.html

 

[salzer mtn]

A spiritual dead man cannot respond to any kind of external call. He is dead to the things of God, they are foolishness unto him. The natural man recieveth not the things of the Spirit of God, they are foolishness unto him, neither can he know them because they are spiritually diserned. When the Holy Spirit makes him alive he is regenerated and God gives him repentance to mourn over his sin and faith to believe on his Son, Christ Jesus. No man can come to me except the father which sent me draw him, and i will raise him up at the last day.

 

[Jerome]

What passage of Scripture is that? Some of it sounds familiar.

 

[saturneptune]

Aside from all of the fancy words, which will not determine anyone's eternal destiny, double predestination is used by those who believe in a lesser role of God's sovereignty to paint those who believe in God's sovereignty in a cruel light. Nothing could be further from the truth.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

Aside from all of the fancy words, which will not determine anyone's eternal destiny, double predestination is used by those who believe in a lesser role of God's sovereignty to paint those who believe in God's sovereignty in a cruel light. Nothing could be further from the truth.

"Double Pre-destination" is not some hackneyed mis-characterization by opponents of Calvinism. There are, and have been from Theodore Beza on, many Calvinists who absolutely DO embrace the idea. Most on this board, and that I know of do not. In this day and age, there are not many modern Calvinists who embrace the idea...but there have been MANY historically and still are plenty of them today.

Not all Calvinists believe exactly the same things on these issues.

 

[SovereignMercy]

And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), it was said to her, "The older shall serve the younger." As it is written, "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated." What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion." So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth." [
Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens. You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?" But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?" Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

The LORD has made all for Himself, Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom.

Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient, " The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone," and " A stone of stumbling And a rock of offense." They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.

 

[saturneptune]

"Double Pre-destination" is not some hackneyed mis-characterization by opponents of Calvinism. There are, and have been from Theodore Beza on, many Calvinists who absolutely DO embrace the idea. Most on this board, and that I know of do not. In this day and age, there are not many modern Calvinists who embrace the idea...but there have been MANY historically and still are plenty of them today.

Not all Calvinists believe exactly the same things on these issues.

This again is a summary of history and not Scripture, although history is valuable as another thread has addressed. From reading Scripture, I will stick with the fact that sin seperates us from God. God chose to bring some (the elect) from out of the curse of sin.

By the way, it is quite easy for us He did choose to debate theories back and forth, as it does not affect our eternal destiny.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

SN:
I was responding to this statement of yours:

those who believe in a lesser role of God's sovereignty to paint those who believe in God's sovereignty in a cruel light.

That is simply not a true statement. Obviously, you do not believe in Double-Predestination....that's fine. Most Calvinists don't. There are even at least two Cals on this board I know of who do though.

Some Calvinists simply believe that "Double-Predestination" is the necessary consequence of the other petals of the TULIP...Unless I am mistaken, I do know that Sproul Jr. (for instance) believes in Double-Predestination.
You are imagining a mis-characterization by non-Calvinists which simply does not exist.

 

[saturneptune]

SN:
I was responding to this statement of yours:

That is simply not a true statement. Obviously, you do not believe in Double-Predestination....that's fine. Most Calvinists don't. There are even at least two Cals on this board I know of who do though.

Some Calvinists simply believe that "Double-Predestination" is the necessary consequence of the other petals of the TULIP...Unless I am mistaken, I do know that Sproul Jr. (for instance) believes in Double-Predestination.
You are imagining a mis-characterization by non-Calvinists which simply does not exist.

That entire quote is your opinion, with nothing to back it up. I have never said I was a Calvinist, that is your term for me.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

That entire quote is your opinion, with nothing to back it up. I have never said I was a Calvinist, that is your term for me.

I think you are simply not following...I am only telling you that it is erroneous to say that "Double-Predestination" is some hackneyed invention of non-whatchamacalits to disparrage them. That's all. I know you don't call yourself "Calvinist". Sproul, however, and many others have no objection to the term. You may call yourself as you wish, but this thread ISN'T ABOUT YOU AT ALL!! You don't believe in "Double-Predestination" fine, gotcha...I already knew this. You refuse the term "Calvinist" (I also already knew this). I was only responding to what I bolded of yours earlier, and that is mistaken.

 

[saturneptune]

Dude, I think you are simply not following...I am only telling you that it is erroneous to say that "Double-Predestination" is some hackneyed invention of non-whatchamacalits to disparrage them. That's all. I know you don't call yourself "Calvinist". Sproul, however, and many others have no objection to the term. You may call yourself as you wish, but this thread ISN'T ABOUT YOU AT ALL!! You don't believe in "Double-Predestination" fine, gotcha...I already knew this. I was only responding to what I bolded of yours earlier, and that is mistaken.

First of all, I am not a dude. Secondly, your opinions are not inspired.

 

[Yeshua1]

I'm fairly certain R.C. DOES hold to double predestination, he refers to it as reprobation. I'm not sure of the nuance he uses there.

As to John MacARthur, he defintely teaches total inability of a sinner to respond unless moved by the holy spirit.

Think he holds that God actively determined that the Elect will come to faith in christ and get saved, and also actively chose that the result of being in Adam and rejecting jesus is Hell, but not that he elected dinners there same way he did saints to heaven! they still choose to go there by own 'free will"