Does regeneration precede faith?

[Iconoclast]

Rm

It is often claimed that regeneration is a gift of God that comes directly from God to man and that man is passive in his faith of the things of God with regard to salvation. Let's take a look at that claim.

:thumbs:

Scripture makes it clear that faith comes from the hearing of the word of God. Romans 10:17

Scripture says we have been born through the word of God. 1 Peter 1:23

Scripture tells us that God chose to give us salvation though His word. James 1:18

so far so good.....

Scripture tells us that salvation is a gift that is provided because of the faith of man.

No.....it is never spoken of as....BECAUSE OF.....Never.

it is always .....by.....or through faith Never because of....


AA...has offered solidly on this, as well as Brother Joseph

There is no scripture that tells us that we are first regenerated and then we believe and then are saved.

On most main teachings there is hardly one scripture verses that says all we need it to say on any topic....so this does not clarify the issue.

There are several uses of the word.

The use of the word regenerated is translated in scripture as born

. There are several uses of the word.


Scripture is clear that man is not passive in this birth. Man must receive Christ.(John 1:12)

Not at all...when you or anyone attempts to avoid the obvious link to verse 13 as if it does not explain vs 12...it results in error as it has here.

 

[Alcott]

Does regeneration precede faith?

No, it never does cedes it-- pre-, present, or post-.

 

[savedbymercy]

Are you going to address mine?

As soon as you quit being evasive of my points made with scripture! Also you keep asking me personal questions about myself, I'm not here to discuss me personally and what I did or didn't do, for my personal actions doesn't trump what the scriptures say about man! You must deal with what the scriptures say about man and not what I did! That's how you evade the points made!

 

[savedbymercy]

Does regeneration precede faith?

No, it never does cedes it-- pre-, present, or post-.

Sure it does, just as life precedes activity !

 

[BobRyan]

It is often claimed that regeneration is a gift of God that comes directly from God to man and that man is passive in his faith of the things of God with regard to salvation. Let's take a look at that claim.


Scripture makes it clear that faith comes from the hearing of the word of God. Romans 10:17

Scripture says we have been born through the word of God. 1 Peter 1:23

Scripture tells us that God chose to give us salvation though His word. James 1:18

Scripture tells us that salvation is a gift that is provided because of the faith of man. Ephesians 2:8 Further Abraham's salvation was a direct response by God to his faith in God. Romans 4:3

There is no scripture that tells us that we are first regenerated and then we believe and then are saved. The use of the word regenerated is translated in scripture as born. Scripture makes is clear that we can be born of the flesh or born of the spirit. (John 3:6)

Scripture is clear that man is not passive in this birth. Man must receive Christ.(John 1:12) Man is justified after his belief. (Romans 3:26) Belief and confession are the responsibility of man (Romans 10:9-10) Calling on God is required of man (Romans 10:13)

The further question is often reasonably asked does the response of man toward God and is available grace in salvation require that any such response is a work that would cause man to be able to claim any amount of credit for the salvation God has provided?

The answer to this would be no. That which is considered works in scripture is always a reference to the Law. This was made clear when Romans chapter three where Paul is addressing Jews. He said "Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law." Then in chapter four Paul states of Abraham that he was not justified world (the law) but because of his belief in God it was counted to him for righteousness. Abraham's active participation and response to God was not a work (the law) it was simply him responding to God with no mention of prior regeneration.

Trying to turn any active participation by man toward God into a work is contrary to scripture and fails to see the bigger picture. That is that no matter what response God requires of man without the work of the cross, without the authority to give salvation, without the power to provide salvation, the response of man can have no effect. Therefore because of this no action or active response on the part of man can ever be considered a work or something to claim credit for with regard to our salvation. A biblical work is following the OT law and not active participation by man. God says I will accept your response toward me and will apply my atonement to your life as He did with Abraham.

Good points raised here.

Also to say that one must be regenerate BEFORE they are saved - means that there is such a thing as a lost regenerate state and the Bible says no such thing.

others will argue that while regenerate means saved - there is such a thing as a saved person that is still in rejection of Christ and the Gospel - that has not yet accepted Christ because that choice comes later - first regeneration. Again - a state that is never approved of in the Bible.

Romans 10 tells us what "results in righteousness" and what "results in salvation" - and it never says that salvation comes before that choice to believe and confess.

The Arminian model is the model found in the Bible itself.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Robert William]

Free will idol

Good points raised here.

Also to say that one must be regenerate BEFORE they are saved - means that there is such a thing as a lost regenerate state and the Bible says no such thing.

others will argue that while regenerate means saved - there is such a thing as a saved person that is still in rejection of Christ and the Gospel - that has not yet accepted Christ because that choice comes later - first regeneration. Again - a state that is never approved of in the Bible.

Romans 10 tells us what "results in righteousness" and what "results in salvation" - and it never says that salvation comes before that choice to believe and confess.

The Arminian model is the model found in the Bible itself.

in Christ,

Bob

Bob, if you remove the myth of prevenient grace from Arminianism you have the heresy of Pelagianism, all those many terms are all to protect your free will idol.

God is NOT obligated to save anybody.

Man is born an enemy and hater of God and considers the gospel to be foolishness so why would he choose it?

 

[InTheLight]

Man is born an enemy and hater of God and considers the gospel to be foolishness so why would he choose it?

Explain why millions and millions of unregenerate souls attended church this Easter Sunday? (and every Sunday for that matter)

Why do these people who you say hate God go looking for Him on a weekly basis?

 

[Rebel]

Explain why millions and millions of unregenerate souls attended church this Easter Sunday? (and every Sunday for that matter)

Why do these people who you say hate God go looking for Him on a weekly basis?

They were predestined to do that, all for the Glory of God, while He is planning to send them to hell to suffer and burn for eternity. They were born into the world for no other purpose than to glorify the Calvinist monster god by their predestination to eternal damnation.

 

[Jerome]

Abraham Booth, "Glad Tidings to Perishing Sinners":

Regeneration must precede faith. This, though assumed as a certain fact, may be justly doubted: for the page of inspiration does not warrant our supposing, that any one is born of God, before he believes in Jesus Christ

To contend, indeed, that regeneration must be prior to faith, and to justification, is like maintaining, That the eldest son of a nobleman must partake of the human nature, before he can have that filial relation to his father, which constitutes him an heir to the paternal estate, and entitles him to those honours which are hereditary in the family. For the human nature, derived from his parents, and the relation of a son, being completely of the same date; there is no such thing as priority, or posteriority, respecting them, either as to the order of time, or the order of nature. They are inseparable; nor can the one exist without the other---Thus it is, I conceive, with regards to regeneration, faith in Christ, and justification before God. For, to consider any man as born of God, but not as a child of God; as a child of God, but not believing in Jesus Christ; as believing in Jesus Christ, but not as justified; or as justified, but not as an heir of immortal felicity; is, either to the last degree absurd, or manifestly contrary to apostolic doctrine.

 

[Robert William]

Abraham Booth, "Glad Tidings to Perishing Sinners":

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus said to him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?"
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'
Joh 3:8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit."

 

[InTheLight]

Explain why millions and millions of unregenerate souls attended church this Easter Sunday? (and every Sunday for that matter)

Why do these people who you say hate God go looking for Him on a weekly basis?

Still waiting for an answer.

 

[Robert William]

They were predestined to do that, all for the Glory of God, while He is planning to send them to hell to suffer and burn for eternity. They were born into the world for no other purpose than to glorify the Calvinist monster god by their predestination to eternal damnation.

Your finally starting to clue in.

 

[Robert William]

Still waiting for an answer.

Who are you talking to and what is the question?

 

[Robert William]

Explain why millions and millions of unregenerate souls attended church this Easter Sunday? (and every Sunday for that matter)

Why do these people who you say hate God go looking for Him on a weekly basis?

Not sure which people you are talking about since I can't see how they live, but I can say God hates hypocrites, if you are referring to the RCC then the majority are hypocrites putting their faith in sacraments.

 

[DHK]

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus said to him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?"
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'
Joh 3:8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit."

Jerome posted an article from:

Originally Posted by Jerome View Post
Abraham Booth, "Glad Tidings to Perishing Sinners":

And you simply posted the above scripture without comment.
In other words--a non-answer. You had no answer--complete and total silence; dumbfounded; don't know what to say; no rebuttal; nothing!
What is wrong here?
We all agree with the posted scripture. You don't know what it means?
And how it refutes Abraham Booth??

 

[Iconoclast]

Rebel

They were predestined to do that, all for the Glory of God, while He is planning to send them to hell to suffer and burn for eternity. They were born into the world for no other purpose than to glorify the Calvinist monster god by their predestination to eternal damnation.

If you are mistaken about your understanding of what you say is

the Calvinist monster god

Are you prepared to face him with this profane view of Him?

 

[Iconoclast]

InTheLight

Explain why millions and millions of unregenerate souls attended church this Easter Sunday? (and every Sunday for that matter)

Why do these people who you say hate God go looking for Him on a weekly basis?

Sure....unsaved men are incurably religious. They will seek all manner of gods as in India.

All men have a god of their own imagination.....scripture speaks of these many gods

"20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.]


see it:wavey:

They invent gods who do what they think he should do....contrary to the biblical God.

2 Wherefore should the heathen say, Where is now their God?

3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.

4 Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men's hands.

5 They have mouths, but they speak not: eyes have they, but they see not:

6 They have ears, but they hear not: noses have they, but they smell not:

7 They have hands, but they handle not: feet have they, but they walk not: neither speak they through their throat.

8 They that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them.


The Morman Tabernacle choir is singing their way into hell. So are multitudes of false professors every week. If your church opened up the truths found in such passages instead of organizing an easter egg hunt you would be able to answer your own question.:wavey:

 

[Revmitchell]

Jerome posted an article from:

And you simply posted the above scripture without comment.
In other words--a non-answer. You had no answer--complete and total silence; dumbfounded; don't know what to say; no rebuttal; nothing!
What is wrong here?
We all agree with the posted scripture. You don't know what it means?
And how it refutes Abraham Booth??

He is just trying to provoke and emotional response out of people. Nothing more.

 

[Rebel]

Rebel



If you are mistaken about your understanding of what you say is

the Calvinist monster god

Are you prepared to face him with this profane view of Him?

I'll never have to face the Calvinist god.

 

[Rippon]

I'll never have to face the Calvinist god.

The God of the Bible bears an uncanny resemblance.