Does Rom 5:18 teach that Christ died for all men without exception ? 2

[Brightfame52]

@Zaatar71

Sorry, You believe a novelty. I will stick with my understanding

Okay, so I have explained my view to you, we will leave it like that. I wont be taking time to further explain to you personally, but I will say, you are in very serious error. If you believe the elect are born condemned for their sins, even after Christ has died for them and put them away , then you are saying His death alone didnt satisfy the Justice of God for their sins, which is a serious devaluation of His Death before God. You probably believe that when a person believes, thats when God does away with the penalty of their sins, not when Christ died for them, so thats works. Believing is an act of the person, which is works.

 

[Brightfame52]

Does Rom 5:18 teach that Christ died for all men without exception ? 4

Again, why is it called Justification of life ? Not only because those Christ lived and died for are entitled to and have a right to life eternal Rev 22:14

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

How do they do Gods commandments ? By Christ doing them for them Rom 5:18-19 !

Now once again, all those Christ lived and died for, shall receive from the Lord spiritual life, because to them, Christ is a life giving Spirit 1 Cor 15:45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Now who did the Last Adam become a life giving Spirit unto ? Those that He was delivered for their offences and was raised again for their Justification Rom 4:25 which Justification gives Life, hence Justification unto life ! Christ must give them Life as their Last Adam. They shall all be made alive spiritually, by a new life or new birth, because that which caused them death, be it spiritual or otherwise, was sin, for all death is the wages of sin Rom 6:23.

However when sin hath been dealt with, put away, taken away, by the blood or death of Christ 1 Jn 3:5

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. Also see Jn 1:29 then also the consequences of the penalty of sin is done away with or abolished. Paul wrote that Christ did what ? Abolished death here 2 Tim 1:10

But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

Note: Jesus Christ cant officially be ones Saviour without for them abolishing death ! All who enter into the second death, Jesus Christ was not their Saviour, sorry ! That would contradict the fact that He's a Saviour !

Now since death has been abolished, Divine Justice to vindicate that, must give Life for an evidence. This evidences that Christ death of obedience did indeed satisfy His Justice for all them Christ died for and put away their sins. So it would be an injury and injustice, to the Person and Work of Gods Beloved Son, that any for whom He died for, would remain in spiritual death and or go into the second death !

 

[atpollard]

It seems like an extended comparison making a pretty dramatic point. I think focusing too hard on just a few words in a single verse hides the forest in the trees and misses the bigger picture that Paul is painting.

Romans 5 [ESV]
1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, 4 and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, 5 and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.

6 For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For one will scarcely die for a righteous person--though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die-- 8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. 10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. 11 More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned-- 13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. 14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.

15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. 16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification. 17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.

18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men. 19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous. 20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, 21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

At a minimum, at least y’all have some context handy.

 

[Brightfame52]

Those Christ brought justification upon was by His one act. Nothing about requiring Faith. Please show me the word Faith in Rom 5:18

So then as through one trespass [Adam’s sin] there resulted condemnation for all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men. AMP

Folks the all men phrase is only to clarify that Justification of life resulted for some people beyond just ethnic jews.

Like alluded to here in the 4th Chapter when it was written Rom 4:6-10

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision[Jews] only, or upon the uncircumcision[Gentiles] also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.

That Righteousness imputed in Rom 4:6 is the Justification of life in Rom 5:18, it extended beyond the jewish nation remnant.

 

[Brightfame52]

It seems like an extended comparison making a pretty dramatic point. I think focusing too hard on just a few words in a single verse hides the forest in the trees and misses the bigger picture that Paul is painting.

Romans 5 [ESV]
1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, 4 and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, 5 and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.

6 For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For one will scarcely die for a righteous person--though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die-- 8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. 10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. 11 More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned-- 13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. 14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.

15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. 16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification. 17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.

18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men. 19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous. 20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, 21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

At a minimum, at least y’all have some context handy.

I have been familiar with the context for the past 40years, but thanks

 

[atpollard]

I have been familiar with the context for the past 40years, but thanks

Undoubtedly, but you didn’t even bother to quote the verse you were discussing in the OP (Romans 5:18) so I just wanted to post the one verse with a little context. My intention was to post just the paragraph for a quick reference. It was when I went looking for a “logical” break for the quote that I realized that there was no logical break … the whole thing is making one point that has NOTHING to do with “Limited vs Universal” atonement.

 

[Brightfame52]

Undoubtedly, but you didn’t even bother to quote the verse you were discussing in the OP (Romans 5:18) so I just wanted to post the one verse with a little context. My intention was to post just the paragraph for a quick reference. It was when I went looking for a “logical” break for the quote that I realized that there was no logical break … the whole thing is making one point that has NOTHING to do with “Limited vs Universal” atonement.

Its a lot of things I am not going to quote. That which I feel needful for making the point I usually go with. Im not teaching a sunday school class, this is contending for the faith. But always feel free to add your commentary, but just know, Im familiar with scripture from over 40 years of study, Im no novice, however I dont feel no way obligated to do commentary every time I make a point.

 

[Brightfame52]

Does 1 Tim 4:10

10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

Does this verse teach that God in Christ is the Saviour of all men without exception? By no means, that is a contradiction of scripture, lost men don't have God as a Saviour, duh!

Instead the verse teaches limited atonement just like the Truth is in Christ Jesus. The word especially here is a adverb and it actually is a qualifier of who God in Christ is a Saviour unto. The word means:

most of all, especially.

málista (from mala, "very much") – very much the case; particularly so; especially (mostly) so.

See that, its teaching particular salvation, Hes a Saviour particularly to them believing. The word especially also means, exclusively. So God is Saviour exclusively and particularly to believers, whether jew or gentile.2

 

[Brightfame52]

The All in Rom 5:18 corresponds to the many in Rom 5:19, and many can't and doesn't mean all without exception!

 

[Brightfame52]

Instead of Rom 5:18 teaching that Christ died for all without exception, it actually teaches limited atonement because the results following the actions of each head, One head being Adam, and the other Head being Jesus Christ, who we know is the Head of His Body the Church Eph 5:23

For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Col 1:18

And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Now lets look at Rom 5:18 with that truth in mind

Therefore as by the offence of one[Adam] judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one[Jesus Christ] the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Now the all men Adam represented as head, by his offence as their head, it resulted in their judgment unto condemnation, so even so, the all men Christ represented as Head, the Church, by His righteousness, comprised of His Life of obedience to Gods Moral Law, and His Death as the Just penalty of any one violation of Gods Law, as a result the all men he represented to them came upon Justification of Life, its the free gift of eternal life Rom 6:23

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

So the results following the actions of each head for those represented determines who the all men are so:

So then as through one trespass [Adam’s sin] there resulted condemnation for all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.


So the all men in Rom 5:18 b is limited to all men which as a result of Christ's Headship righteousness, it resulted in their Justification of Life !

And we know from other scripture that cannot apply to all men without exception ! What about those who shall never see life ? Jn 3:36

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Its impossible for any of them to be included in the all men who receive Justification of Life as a result of Christ's act of Righteousness ! f