Does Salvation require baptistm?

[Salty]

In another post Free at Last stated:

"Refusing to be baptized gives evidence they are not saved"

So you agree?

If you do, aren't you equating works with salvation?

If a person refuses baptism - it could be a reason or an excuse (there is a difference)

We need to find out why a person is refusing, reluctant, relocating or any or "r"

First and foremost a person should full understand why he is being baptized. Too often gets saved Sun am and dunked that night - without fully realizing what he did.

Yes, I realize the Ethiopian asked to be baptized immediately - but I am confident he fully understood the meaning.

 

[Christos doulos]

I have always been in the camp of one does not have to be baptized in order to be saved, but I wouldn't be definitive about that as the other camp brings a good argument as well, and they manage to present it without it being works salvation

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Does Salvation require baptistm?

Answer, NO it does not! Are we Catholics now who believe in Works Salvation?

 

[agedman]

Of course one doesn't have to be baptized to be saved and it is certainly not an indication of being saved. I dare say that under the easy believism mode that sprang up under Finney, and the methodical thinking of the arminian Methodists and Baptists, there are untold numbers who are not saved and yet baptized.

Perhaps this is just FAL making more sensational statements that cannot be held scripturally valid.

In another thread FAL held the position that one could live and not commit sin.

If you couple the statements of baptism and sin, I wonder if he is slipping into the thinking of Church of Christ baptism to be saved and sinless perfection.

I hope not.

 

[jbh28]

In another post Free at Last stated:

"Refusing to be baptized gives evidence they are not saved"

So you agree?

Yes/no. I cannot make a blanket statement, but I'll say this. If a person is truly saved, I don't believe they will continue to directly disobey God in especially with the very first thing they are to do.

If you do, aren't you equating works with salvation?

No, If water baptism was required for salvation, then yes it would be works. It's not about baptism but obedience. I'm assuming the situation is a person that professes Christ, but refuse to obey him. That's a sign of an unbeliever, not a believer.

If a person refuses baptism - it could be a reason or an excuse (there is a difference)

We need to find out why a person is refusing, reluctant, relocating or any or "r"

One reason I don't like to make a blanket statement without hearing the "why."

First and foremost a person should full understand why he is being baptized. Too often gets saved Sun am and dunked that night - without fully realizing what he did.

Yes, I realize the Ethiopian asked to be baptized immediately - but I am confident he fully understood the meaning.[/QUOTE]
They should understand, but it should be done pretty quickly.

 

[agedman]

Yes/no. I cannot make a blanket statement, but I'll say this. If a person is truly saved, I don't believe they will continue to directly disobey God in especially with the very first thing they are to do.

I agree.

No, If water baptism was required for salvation, then yes it would be works. It's not about baptism but obedience. I'm assuming the situation is a person that professes Christ, but refuse to obey him. That's a sign of an unbeliever, not a believer.

You did good 'til the last sentence. There may be some very good reasons why a believer refuses baptism. There may be some very good reasons why a believer refuses the Lord's Supper.

These are ordinances, and the partaking of both need to be left up to that person and Christ.

No doubt a believer will desire baptism as they learn and grow in the knowledge and relationship of Christ. There is no indication that the demonic man, the woman with an issue of blood, Zacchaeus, and a host of others who had a personal experience with Christ were immediately baptized if baptized at all.

There is no time line from belief to baptism other than imposed by man.

Christ was baptized, but that didn't start his being Christ. He had lived some 30 years as the messiah before being baptized.

That statement does not diminish the importance.

 

[Tom Butler]

One night the associate pastor and I visited an unsaved member of my Sunday School class. I shared the gospel with him and the Holy Spirit opened his eyes and heart and he confessed Christ as Lord.

As the associate pastor instructed him about baptism, his wife then said, "you know, the Lord saved me several years ago, but I've never been baptized. I'm deathly afraid of somebody's putting my face under water." She said she knew the fear was irrational, but simply could not do it.

I told her, "then I can't help you. This is the kind of situation only the Lord can help you with. We'll pray that God gives you the courage you need." And we did, right then.

The following Sunday morning, here they both come down the aisle. Woo-hoo! God had given her the victory. My pastor baptized both of them soon thereafter.

That's the only time I've ever run into a situation like that.

We Baptists must be careful that in emphasizing our belief in salvation by grace alone through faith alone, we diminish the importance of baptism. It is, in fact, the first act of obedience for a new believer.

We must be diligent in explaining why they should be baptized, but we should be clear as well.

 

[Alive in Christ]

The scriptures certainly place water baptism among the very important ordinances of the church.

But it is not "essential" in the way that faith in Christ is.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Salvation comes when someone, at the drawing of the Spirit, casts their past, present and future onto the mercy of Christ and follows Him in discipleship.

Baptism is intended to be the initial public identification with Christ, an outward expression of the inward act.

While there may be some irrational fear associated with the ordinance, or some concern about seeming to reject a Christian spiritual upbringing that practices infant baptism (like a friend of mine who was raised as a conservative Presbyterian), I believe persons who are Christ's will want to identify with Jesus in believer's baptism. They just may not be convinced of it according to our timetable.

A number of years ago, I had the privilege of assisting with the baptism of a young man who was mentally-challenged. I have no doubt he knew Jesus and had given himself to Christ as best as he knew how (just like the rest of us). Unfortunately, he had a deathly fear of drowning and was scared of going underwater. He was a solidly-built ranch hand who stood about six feet seven inches and about 240 pounds of muscle. His parents advised the pastor that he could panic on us and to be very careful, so I stood behind the young man to support him while the pastor carefully laid him back into the water. Just before the water went over his face, he started to panic and flail his arms. We quietly said, "It's okay," and carefully, but firmly raised him out of the water and he calmed down immediately. We didn't get him all the way under, but I would certainly count it as immersion since that was his hope/intent and he was very brave to do something like that given his circumstances. Christ meets people where they are, and Christ's people should do the same.

Necessary for salvation? No.

Part of normal obedience to Christ? Yes.

Should grace be the "rule"? Absolutely.

 

[Christos doulos]

Salvation comes when someone, at the drawing of the Spirit, casts their past, present and future onto the mercy of Christ and follows Him in discipleship.

Baptism is intended to be the initial public identification with Christ, an outward expression of the inward act.

While there may be some irrational fear associated with the ordinance, or some concern about seeming to reject a Christian spiritual upbringing that practices infant baptism (like a friend of mine who was raised as a conservative Presbyterian), I believe persons who are Christ's will want to identify with Jesus in believer's baptism. They just may not be convinced of it according to our timetable.

A number of years ago, I had the privilege of assisting with the baptism of a young man who was mentally-challenged. I have no doubt he knew Jesus and had given himself to Christ as best as he knew how (just like the rest of us). Unfortunately, he had a deathly fear of drowning and was scared of going underwater. He was a solidly-built ranch hand who stood about six feet seven inches and about 240 pounds of muscle. His parents advised the pastor that he could panic on us and to be very careful, so I stood behind the young man to support him while the pastor carefully laid him back into the water. Just before the water went over his face, he started to panic and flail his arms. We quietly said, "It's okay," are carefully, but firmly raised him out of the water and he calmed down immediately. We didn't get him all the way under, but I would certainly count it as immersion since that was his hope/intent and he was very brave to do sometime like that given his circumstances. Christ meets people where they are, and Christ's people should do the same.

Necessary for salvation? No.

Part of normal obedience to Christ? Yes.

Should grace be the "rule"? Absolutely.

Thank you for sharing that story. I must say, I found the immersion a little disconcerting myself.

 

[agedman]

One night the associate pastor and I visited an unsaved member of my Sunday School class. I shared the gospel with him and the Holy Spirit opened his eyes and heart and he confessed Christ as Lord.

As the associate pastor instructed him about baptism, his wife then said, "you know, the Lord saved me several years ago, but I've never been baptized. I'm deathly afraid of somebody's putting my face under water." She said she knew the fear was irrational, but simply could not do it.

I told her, "then I can't help you. This is the kind of situation only the Lord can help you with. We'll pray that God gives you the courage you need." And we did, right then.

The following Sunday morning, here they both come down the aisle. Woo-hoo! God had given her the victory. My pastor baptized both of them soon thereafter.

That's the only time I've ever run into a situation like that.

We Baptists must be careful that in emphasizing our belief in salvation by grace alone through faith alone, we diminish the importance of baptism. It is, in fact, the first act of obedience for a new believer.

We must be diligent in explaining why they should be baptized, but we should be clear as well.

Absolutely correct!!!!! :thumbsup::thumbsup: (is there a magic number that is supposed to indicate complete agreement - maybe 7?)

I disagree with those who state that disobedience is obedience delayed.

Even Christ indicated that when giving the parable of the men told to go out to the harvest, the one who didn't go and then went was the obedient one.

 

[agedman]

Maybe a thread should be started on immersion stories.

Like the time a preacher that I know baptized a man with beautiful long hair.

Whispering took place between the man and the pastor. The audience, assuming the pastor was just giving words of encouragement and final instructions, watched in approval as the pastor conducted the ordinance.

The man descending gracefully down from the assemblies view to be immersed in the water with a full head of hair to reemerge with no hair and a displaying huge angry red tattoo.

The people gasp in astonishment and some broke out in laughter in sympathetic embarrassment that showed on the man’s face.

The man's embarrassment was complete when the pastor grabbed the wig out of the water as it floated by, gave it a quick wring, and handed it to the man.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

One reason I don't like to make a blanket statement without hearing the "why."

First and foremost a person should full understand why he is being baptized. Too often gets saved Sun am and dunked that night - without fully realizing what he did.

Yes, I realize the Ethiopian asked to be baptized immediately - but I am confident he fully understood the meaning.

They should understand, but it should be done pretty quickly.[/QUOTE]

Ok there Presbyterian & not Baptist....taught to think differently about Baptism....should these people ignore what they have been taught by their church? I think not!

 

[12strings]

In another post Free at Last stated:

"Refusing to be baptized gives evidence they are not saved"

So you agree?

If you do, aren't you equating works with salvation?

If a person refuses baptism - it could be a reason or an excuse (there is a difference)

We need to find out why a person is refusing, reluctant, relocating or any or "r"

First and foremost a person should full understand why he is being baptized. Too often gets saved Sun am and dunked that night - without fully realizing what he did.

Yes, I realize the Ethiopian asked to be baptized immediately - but I am confident he fully understood the meaning.

I would say if the Bolded Statement is true, then there aren't any presbyterian christians.

 

[agedman]

What do you do if someone wants baptized for a dead person?

1 Corinthians 15:9

"Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?"

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I would say if the Bolded Statement is true, then there aren't any presbyterian christians.

..... Or Reformed, or Lutheran, or Episcopal, or RCC or Methodist or.............

 

[freeatlast]

In another post Free at Last stated:

"Refusing to be baptized gives evidence they are not saved"

So you agree?

If you do, aren't you equating works with salvation?

If a person refuses baptism - it could be a reason or an excuse (there is a difference)

We need to find out why a person is refusing, reluctant, relocating or any or "r"

First and foremost a person should full understand why he is being baptized. Too often gets saved Sun am and dunked that night - without fully realizing what he did.

Yes, I realize the Ethiopian asked to be baptized immediately - but I am confident he fully understood the meaning.

Any person refusing baptism after claiming to have been saved gives evidence that they were not saved.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

What do you do if someone wants baptized for a dead person?

Bury them in the rain :smilewinkgrin:

 

[govteach51]

Any person refusing baptism after claiming to have been saved gives evidence that they were not saved.

You don't know that, only God knows whether that person was saved or not.

 

[freeatlast]

You don't know that, only God knows whether that person was saved or not.

Actually I do and we all can because the bible says we will know them.. To be saved one has to repent. It is impossible to be in a state of repentance and rebellion at the same time. Baptism is a command. Also we are told this;
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.