Thank you HP. Did you look at the link from Blue Letter Bible that shows the word that is used for the second instance of "all men" and it's other uses in Scripture? Do you disagree that it always shows the whole of a particular group but NOT all men forever and ever?
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Does Saving faith Involve an Act of the Will?
- Thread starter Heavenly Pilgrim
- Start date
Thank you HP. Did you look at the link from Blue Letter Bible that shows the word that is used for the second instance of "all men" and it's other uses in Scripture? Do you disagree that it always shows the whole of a particular group but NOT all men forever and ever?
Faith is of God exercised by Jesus through obedience unto death by which the promise of the Holy Spirit he received from the Father then shed on us sanctifying us (setting us apart) as sheep therefore believing ones. We become believers when Jesus calls us (see Paul on the road) and are then given the Holy Spirit our Helper.
I believe relative to God and the elect of God neither faith nor belief comes from within the man. It comes through the physical/flesh man child Jesus the seed of Abraham and David that through obedience unto death even the death of the cross the only begotten of God the Father by a woman was regenerated as the last Adam a quickening spirit Man in whose image we will be made at his appearing. It is this resurrected Man The Son of God who ascended to the right hand of God.
DHK I understand you will not agree with this yet I believe it is word of God accurate.
Without any preconceived ideas of God but just from scripture show where it isn't correct.
Thanks in advance.
PS annsni would like your thoughts also. Thanks
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Show through Scriptures where "faith is of God."
When the Philippian jailer was commanded: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved," did Paul really mean:
"Believe (with God's faith) on the Lord Jesus Christ..."
--Sorry, I don't find that in Scripture. In fact I find the entire concept quite absurd.
Did Jesus need to be saved?
Why did Jesus need to exercise faith?
Whoever wrote this is very confused. Jesus received the promise of the Holy Spirit. That is what it says. Why would Jesus need to receive the promise of the Holy Spirit. He gave us the promise of the Holy Spirit. He is God. He didn't need a promise. He is the one who gives us promises. He is the Word, the second person of the triune Godhead.
Faith must come first. We don't become believing ones unless we have faith to believe. It is not God that gives us that faith. We must believe God in order to be his sheep.
We become believers when we put our faith and trust in Christ.
"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved."
Faith is faith is faith.
Does the Muslim have in Allah? Yes or no?
Jesus said, Unless you have faith as a little child you cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.
--It is evident that Jesus believed that all men had faith.
It is not the actual faith that men possess that is important. It is the object of their faith. In the example that Jesus gave, the object of the child's faith is their parents. They have a simple trust in their parents, the same complete confidence that we need to put in Christ. As the parents are the object of the child's faith, so must Christ be the object of our faith.
--The object of the Muslim's faith is Allah. He does have faith. It is blind faith; misdirected faith, but it is faith--faith in Allah. It is a faith that cannot save.
Only to believers does faith become a "spiritual gift."
In 1Cor.12 there is a faith that is spoken of as a spiritual gift.
In Gal.5 faith is spoken of as one of the fruits of the Holy Spirit.
In both of these contexts God does not give spiritual fruit or spiritual gifts to the unsaved. It just does not happen. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, (with your own faith, not with God's faith). That is the only way the command makes sense.
1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by the water and the blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
John 5:19,30 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Hebrews 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises,
That included Abraham. Has Abraham even today received the promises?
What about the one seed above in bold, Christ, has he received the promises.
The promises are made to him also, are they not? Actually only to him and Abraham, correct? Yet Abraham still hasn't received them. Your question, why did the Christ, Jesus need to be made any promise. Is he not the seed to whom the promise was made? See verse 19 of Gal 3 Does the promise have to do with inheritance? See verse 18 Are we to be joint heirs of something with this seed to whom the promise of inheritance was made? See Rom 8:17 Why would the Christ have to inherit anything?
John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
Why not? Why didn't the second person of the triune Godhead not just go ahead and give them the Holy Spirit? Why did he have to go away? What if he had decided to not go away? Did his going away have anything to do with his obedience unto death even the death on the cross? Did the second person of the triune Godhead die for your sins? How long was he dead? What is the definition of this death of which he died even though you don't really believe he could die, being God? After he went away, what happened after that.
Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up. (God the Father raised Jesus Christ his Son from the dead.) Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead) Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Yes Jesus received the promise of the Holy Spirit from the Father and then the Comforter was sent to his disciples. He went away, Died. His Father raised him from the dead Gave him the Holy Spirit and the Comforter was shed on us.
Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law or by the hearing of faith,? asked Paul.
Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of the faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
4 resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
Do you think his being obedient unto death even the death of the cross had anything to do with Jesus being the author and finisher of the faith?
Obedience of faith.
What did Jesus the Christ do that they heard about by which they received the Spirit? -----He Died, shed his life's blood, poured out his soul unto death.
Post 82-85 of, Ye reject salvation by grace !
at the right hand then of God having been exalted -- also the promise of the Holy Spirit having received from the Father -- he was shedding forth this, which now ye see and hear;
Did Jesus or did not Jesus receive the promise of the Holy Spirit from the Father???
Did Jesus or did not Jesus receive the promise of the Holy Spirit from the Father???
savedbymercy
New Member
He did ! For the Holy Spirit was given as an extension of His saving Work to apply Salvation that He wrought for all that He died, His Seed !
Isa 44:3
For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring:
This is the Spiritual seed of Christ being meant Isa 53:10
10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
Gentiles were also of this Seed of Christ, that is why we have this Acts 10:44-45
44While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
It was poured just as the Promise said Isa 44:3
3For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring:
Do you believe God gives sinners a "NEW" heart (Exek. 36:26)? Do you believe that the "new" heart which God gives is a DIFFERENT heart than what they previously had? Wasn't their previous heart an "heart of unbelief"???
Hence, God gives a BELIEVING HEART as "with the heart man believeth unto righteousness." The very state of the heart when given is a BELIEVING heart and thus regeneration and saving faith are simeltaneous in action. There is no such thing as an unregenerated beleiver any more than there is such a thing as a regenerated unbeliever. I Jn 5:1 proves this grammatically as does Ephesians 2:8-10. We are "saved through faith" not apart from it and "saved" in Ephesians 2:10 is a synonym of "quickened" (Ephes. 2:1, 5) and a synonym of being "created in Christ Jesus" (Eph. 2:10).
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savedbymercy
New Member
God cannot give a new heart without giving faith at the same time because he does not give an unbelieving heart.
savedbymercy
New Member
the bib
Faith and Hope comes with the New Birth[1 Pet 1:3] but it is not active until the Gospel is sent to be heard.Rom 10:17
This is Illustrated by Jesus in the parable of the sower. Matt 13:23
23But he that received seed[Gospel] into the good ground[New Heart] is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
The ground was previously made good in order for the seed of the Gospel should be received into it with understanding !
New Birth is accomplished by the Spirit alone ! The Preaching comes along later, for the hearing of it by the New Heart ! And Upon hearing the sent word Preached, Faith is summoms and believing begins
This scripture Matt 13:23 clearly teaches New Birth prior to Faith or Believing !
Faith and Hope comes with the New Birth[1 Pet 1:3] but it is not active until the Gospel is sent to be heard.Rom 10:17
This is Illustrated by Jesus in the parable of the sower. Matt 13:23
23But he that received seed[Gospel] into the good ground[New Heart] is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
The ground was previously made good in order for the seed of the Gospel should be received into it with understanding !
New Birth is accomplished by the Spirit alone ! The Preaching comes along later, for the hearing of it by the New Heart ! And Upon hearing the sent word Preached, Faith is summoms and believing begins
This scripture Matt 13:23 clearly teaches New Birth prior to Faith or Believing !
WRong! Regeneration is always in connection with God's Word - the gospel (James 1:18; 1 Thes. 1:4-5; 2 Cor. 4:6). Regeneration is thorugh faith - Eph. 2:8
savedbymercy
New Member
the bib
No its right. Regeneration or New Birth is by the Spirit through the Resurrection of Christ. 1 Pet 1:3
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
A Person can be regenerated for days, maybe months before they believe the Gospel. Just like Cornelius, He feared God with a New heart way before God sent him the Gospel to believe and be saved.
The scripture say of Cornelius Acts 10:1-2
1There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,
2A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.
Are you going to tell me that he[ Cornelius] feared God with the natural heart of man, an unregenerate heart ?
And it was not until he heard the Gospel that he believed Acts 15:7
And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Now was he[ Cornelius] regenerated before he believed ?
No its right. Regeneration or New Birth is by the Spirit through the Resurrection of Christ. 1 Pet 1:3
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
A Person can be regenerated for days, maybe months before they believe the Gospel. Just like Cornelius, He feared God with a New heart way before God sent him the Gospel to believe and be saved.
The scripture say of Cornelius Acts 10:1-2
1There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,
2A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.
Are you going to tell me that he[ Cornelius] feared God with the natural heart of man, an unregenerate heart ?
And it was not until he heard the Gospel that he believed Acts 15:7
And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Now was he[ Cornelius] regenerated before he believed ?
Why not word it like this?
The saving faith, that is the faith of Jesus Christ brought the Grace of God the Father through the resurrection of his Son Jesus the Christ with and by the promise of the Holy Spirit Jesus received from the Father Romans 8:11 & Acts 2:32,33 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, Also: This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, The washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit.
By Grace through the faith, ye are saved.
Gal. 3:23,24 Kept under the schoolmaster before the faith came. The obedience of Jesus unto death even the death of the cross.
Gal. 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Why? Because of Jesus faith in his blood, obedience unto dying on the cross God gave grace and set forth Jesus the propitiation (place of mercy, mercy seat). Therefore: Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit;
Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, (the schoolmaster) but under grace. (Jesus made the mercy seat and being resurrected).
BTW you are absolutely correct. The elect are the believing ones. They are the sheep.
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