Does the bible teach a great revival before the rapture?

[xdisciplex]

I always hear this stuff from charismatics. They're always talking to and refering to this huuuuuge revival which is yet to come. I wonder where do they get this? Is this biblical? It's always this talk about this biiiig revival which will come and then everything will be honkey dorey and they speak prophetic words and say that many people will get saved and that the huge football stadiums will be used for God to hold evangelisations. I really wonder if what they speak as prophetic words isn't in reality simply what they wish will happen but this doesn't mean it will happen.

 

[Eric B]

That's based on Christ's statement "and this Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness to all the nations; and then shall the end come" (Matt. 24:14).
But how this is interpreted depends on a person's view on the meaning of terms such as "the gospel of the Kingdom", "preached in all the world" and "the end", and other factors, such as when the "tribulation" this occurs during or after occurred. Some see this spread of the Gospel as happenng now, some say it is starting now, and some say it is future. Many think the tribulation is future, and some see it as the martyrdoms of past centuries. So there are many differing views on this.

 

[J. Jump]

Using their definition of revival there may or may not be one before the rapture. I'm not sure. But in a true sense of what revival is I don't think there is going to be one.

And there is certainly not going to be a revival when it comes to the Word of the Kingdom. It fact the Bible tells us that it will be quite the opposite when it comes to True Kingdom teaching.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Topic questions: //Does the bible teach a great revival before the rapture?//

No. Also, the Bible does not preclude such from happening.

Similair question: //Does the Bible teach a great revival before the
Second Coming of Jesus in power & glory to destroy the Antichrist
and set up a physical/literal Millennial Messanic Kingdom?

No, for gentiles.
Yes, for Israeli Jews

 

[Link]

Where does the Bible teach the concept of revival?

 

[BobRyan]

Yes there is the outpouring of the Holy Spirit and latter rain just before the rapture - which happens at the 2nd coming according to Matt 24, John 14:1-4, Rev 19-20 etc.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[xdisciplex]

Um. If there will be an outpouring then does this not mean that before this outpouring hasn't happened there also will not be a rapture and this means that as long as the outpouring has not happened you also don't even have to expect the rapture?

 

[dispen4ever]

The Rapture and the 2nd Coming are two separate events. The Rapture is prior to the 7 years of Tribulation. There is no evidence in the Bible of a world-wide "outpouring" of faith, referred to as a revival, prior to the Rapture. After the Rapture, the antichrist makes his appearance. Born-again Believers won't be here, having been caught up to meet Jesus in the air.

The 2nd Coming is at the end of the Tribulation. During the Tribulation the 144,000 will witness, and thousands, perhaps millions, will be saved, then martyred for their faith. Perhaps that, in the midst of chaos, could be referred to as an "outpouring" of faith, or "revival." Surely it won't be a time when folks gather in local church buildings, sing praises, shout hallelujah, and so forth, with the world going to hell all around them. IDK ~ I just think it will be more subtle than that. I do know that countless others will perish, having no hope.

If you are born again, xd, you won't be here to "welcome" the antichrist. You'll be safe at Home, and you won't even have to slide.

 

[xdisciplex]

But many christians teach that not all will be raptured and that some will have to go through the tribulation.
A minister from Africa once said that God told him that if the rapture was today he wouldn't belong to the bride community and this christian is totally radical and fasts and does all kinds of things. If he wasn't good enough to be raptured then I'm also not good enough to be raptured. It totaly fits to this "Jesus wants a perfect bride" argument. I mean let's say the rapture takes place and you're not totally determined then what will happen? Do you have to be totally on fire for God to be raptured? But what if the rapture happens at a time where you're not as on fire as you used to be? What happens then? Will you simply be left behind? :tear:

 

[dispen4ever]

Nonsense. To be totally on fire you need to be born again. If you are born again, you will be caught up in the rapture. Born again = totally on fire. And it is the joyful fire, not the hellish one. The guy in Africa doesn't know his bible.

 

[BobRyan]

The Rapture and the 2nd Coming are two separate events.

Wrong.

The rapture event of 1Thess 4 is the "FIRST resurrection" where the "dead in Christ are raised FIRST" just as John points out in Rev 20:4 the "FIRST resurrection" is that of the "blessed and holy over whom the 2nd death has no power" and John shows us that the FIRST resurrection happens at the Rev 19 2nd coming event.

Matt 24 follows that exact same sequence for the tribulation and THEN the gathering of the saints to Christ.

Impossible to miss.

man made traditions fall apart when confronted with scripture as these texts show.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Ed Edwards]

Actually he was right!
Here is a former writing totally my own.

---------------------------------------
Pretrib pre-mill outline of time forward:

0. church age continues <== you are here!
1. rapture/resurrection event
2. Tribulation time
3. Second Advent of Jesus event
4. literal MK=millennial kingdom
5. new heaven & new earth

The time line according to Matthew 24
(Mount Olivet Discourse, also Matthew 25,
Mark 13, Luke 21):

0. church age continues <== you are here!
Matthew 24:4-15

1. rapture/resurrection event
Matthew 24:31-44

2. Tribulation time
Matthew 24:21-28

3. Second Advent of Jesus event
Matthew 24:29-30)

Not mentioned in Matthew 24:
(4. literal MK=millennial kingdom)
(5. new heaven & new earth)

The time line according to Revelation:

0. church age continues - Rev 2-3 <== you are here!
1. rapture/resurrection event - Rev 4:1 (type)
2. Tribulation time - Rev 4:2-19:10
3. Second Advent of Jesus event - Rev 19:11-21
4. literal MK=millennial kingdom - Rev 20:1-6
5. new heaven & new earth - Rev 20:7-22:5

The time line according to 2 Thessalonians 2:

0. church age continues <== you are here!
(implied, until the falling away)

1. rapture/resurrection
v.1 - gathering together unto him
v.3 - falling away

2. Tribulation time
(time of the man of sin)

3. Second Advent of Jesus event
v.1 - coming of our Lord Jesus Christ
v.8

Not mentioned:
(4. literal MK=millennial kingdom)
(5. new heaven & new earth)

BTW, I believed in the pre-tribulation rapture/resurrection
before i saw these three scriptures as pretrib.
So even if you can prove all three of these scriptures
in error, I'll still hope in the pre-tribulation rapture
as will (2001 numbers) 80% of Baptists and 60% of kindred Christians.

-------------------------------------------

 

[BobRyan]

Too bad your view jumbles up Matt 24 AND Rev 19-21 instead of leaving them in tact.

World wide destruction of the flood is as the world wide event of the Son of Man -

2Peter 3 makes the same point - that just as the earth was destroyed by water - so it is to be destroyed by Fire at "the coming" of Christ - "His return" as Peter calls it.

Peter tells the NT saints to fix their hope “completely” on the coming of the Son of Man”

1Pet 1
13 Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit,

fix your hope completely on the grace to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

2 Peter 1

16 For we did not follow cleverly devised tales when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty.

So too Matthew speaking decades after the Cross shows us that Christ Himself “Does not miss” the all important focus of the saints in His review of events of the future leading to “the coming of the Lord”

The time line according to Matthew 24

1. church age continues <== you are here! Matthew 24:4-15

2. Tribulation time Matthew 24:21-28

3. Second Advent of Jesus event Matthew 24:29-30)

4. rapture/resurrection event Matthew 24:31-44, Rev 20:4-5

5. Millennium - Rev 20:5-end



Now for an even larger sweep of history and Bible showing the same sequence --

Postrib pre-mill outline:

0. church age continues -- you are here
1. Tribulation time Matthew 24:21-28
2. Second Advent of Jesus event (1Thess 4, Rev 19, Matthew 24:29-30)
2.A The FIRST resurrection (Rev 20) event Matthew 24:31-44, Rev 20:4-5
of the blessed and holy at Christ's appearing in Rev 19 –
Is the same as the resurrection at Christ's return in 1Thess 4.
2.B. Saints raptured to heaven as promised in John 14 (1 Thess 4)
3. literal millennium spent in heaven with Christ (Rev 20)
4. Second Resurrection (Rev 20)
5. Lake of Fire destruction of the wicked (Rev 20)
6. new heaven & new earth (Rev 21)

In this view the First Resurrection John sees (Rev 20) which is at Christ's Rev 19 appearing is the SAME resurrection that Paul describes at Christ's appearing in 1Thess 4. The resurrection of the righteous.

In this view the sequence of Rev 19, 20 and 21 is literal and plain. No gimmicks!

 

[Ed Edwards]

BobRyan: //3. literal millennium spent in heaven with Christ (Rev 20)//

Tee Hee.
'literal' and 'spent in heaven' is self-contradictory.
I beleive the Bible teaches a physical/literal Millennial Messanic
Kingdom by a physical/literal living Messiah Jesus, on
a physical/literal throne of David in a physical/literal Jerusalem
over a physical/literal Yisrael in a physical/literal World.

Such self-contradictory teachings preclude an 'end of days' revival.
There will be no 'great revival' of gentiles before the rapture.
There will be a 'great revival' of Jewish Israeli during the
Tribulation Period that follows the pretribualtion rapture of the
curch into heaven.

 

[BobRyan]

Literal Millennium - means literal 1000 years.

It literally starts with the FIRST resurrection - as we see in Rev 20:4-5.

The FIRST resurrection happens at the coming of Christ - Rev 19.

The FIRST resurrection is where the "Dead in Christ literally rise FIRST" as Paul points out in 1Thess 4.

The FIRST resurrection is where the saints are literally raptured UP to Christ and literally taken to heaven that we may literally BE "WHERE He is -- so WE shall be ALSO" John 14 in that literal place He is literally preparing for us.

How to reject this as literal Millennium is beyond me.

The neat part is that all these scriptures fit together and I get to take them "just as they read" whereas you have to continually "rework them" as you do with the sequence of Matt 24 -- that does NOT fit your traditions.

So as I have said before -- "how nice for me".

In Christ,

Bob

 

[El_Guero]

The Bible commands Discipleship.

I always hear this stuff from charismatics. They're always talking to and refering to this huuuuuge revival which is yet to come. I wonder where do they get this? Is this biblical? It's always this talk about this biiiig revival which will come and then everything will be honkey dorey and they speak prophetic words and say that many people will get saved and that the huge football stadiums will be used for God to hold evangelisations. I really wonder if what they speak as prophetic words isn't in reality simply what they wish will happen but this doesn't mean it will happen.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Literal Millennium - means literal 1000 years.

It literally starts with the FIRST resurrection - as we see in Rev 20:4-5.

The FIRST resurrection happens at the coming of Christ - Rev 19.

The FIRST resurrection is where the "Dead in Christ literally rise FIRST" as Paul points out in 1Thess 4.

The FIRST resurrection is where the saints are literally raptured UP to Christ and literally taken to heaven that we may literally BE "WHERE He is -- so WE shall be ALSO" John 14 in that literal place He is literally preparing for us.

How to reject this as literal Millennium is beyond me.

I accept your 12-foot 'literal Millennium'. However, I
believe in the WHOLE MILE 'literal Millennium'.

Matthew 5:41 (KJV1611 Edition):
And whosoeuer shall compell thee to goe a mile,
goe with him twaine.

Not that you are working your way into salvation; but
because you have received ALL (from Beginning to End)
of Salvation (free Gift of God via Messiah Jesus) already.

 

[BobRyan]

I am glad you are able to see that inch as a mile - but you have not addressed any of the points where the Bible is debunking your intrepretation of events taking place in the literal Millennium, the literal 1000 years, the literal point at which the FIRST resurrection takes place AND THEN 1000 years literally follow.

With the FIRST resurrection being described by Paul AND John where the "DEAD in CHRIST rise FIRST" 1Thess 4.

Your entire model falls apart when the Bible speaks to that FIRST resurrection in John's FUTURE and you have to reject it as being the literal FIRST resurrection in John's future.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Grasshopper]

That's based on Christ's statement "and this Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness to all the nations; and then shall the end come" (Matt. 24:14).
But how this is interpreted depends on a person's view on the meaning of terms such as "the gospel of the Kingdom", "preached in all the world" and "the end", and other factors, such as when the "tribulation" this occurs during or after occurred. Some see this spread of the Gospel as happenng now, some say it is starting now, and some say it is future. Many think the tribulation is future, and some see it as the martyrdoms of past centuries. So there are many differing views on this.

That's based on Christ's statement "and this Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness to all the nations; and then shall the end come" (Matt. 24:14).

Col.1:6which is come unto you; even as it is also in all the world ( ko/smov ) bearing fruit and increasing, as it doth in you also, since the day ye heard and knew the grace of God in truth;

Col 1:23 if so be that ye continue in the faith, grounded and stedfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel which ye heard, which was preached in all creation ( ktiðsiv )under heaven; whereof I Paul was made a minister

Romans 16:26 but now is manifested, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, is made known unto all the nations ( eáqnov) unto obedience of faith:

Romans 10:18 But I say, Did they not hear? Yea, verily, Their sound went out into all the earth ( gh=), And their words unto the ends of the world ( oiÎkoumeÑnh ).

But how this is interpreted depends on a person's view on the meaning of terms such as "the gospel of the Kingdom",

Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

"preached in all the world"

Romans 10:18 But I say, Did they not hear? Yea, verily, Their sound went out into all the earth, And their words unto the ends of the world .

and "the end",

1Pe 4:7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.

and other factors, such as when the "tribulation"

Spurgeon:
Matthew 24:21
"For there shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be." Read the record written by Josephus of the destruction of Jerusalem, and see how truly our Lord’s words were fulfilled. The Jews impiously said, concerning the death of Christ, "His blood be on us, and on our children." Never did any other people invoke such an awlful curse upon themselves, and upon no other nation did such a judgment ever fall. We read of Jews crucified till there was no more wood for making crosses; of thousands of the people slaying one another in their fierce faction fights within the city; of so many of them being sold for slaves that they became a drug in the market, and all but valueless; and of the fearful carnage when the Romans at length entered the doomed capital; and the blood-curdling story exactly bears out the Savior’s statement uttered nearly forty years before the terrible events occurred."

 

[BobRyan]

In Rev 14 we see a great gospel message "going out to the whole world" - just before the end of all things.

A world wide evangelistic message - a world wide revival of the "FEW" of Matt 7.

In Christ,

Bob