Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Brother BobRyan, show us word for word where you found
what you say is there in Revelation 14. Thank you.
what you say is there in Revelation 14. Thank you.
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Does the bible teach a great revival before the rapture?
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Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Ed Edwards said:
Amen, Brother Ed Edwards -- Preach it! :thumbs:
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Rev 14 points to a time WHEN the hour of God's judgment will have come -- WHILE people are still on the earth - before the second coming.
Rev 14 declares that this revival message - this gospel about the judgment hour that HAS come - is to go out to everyone.
Rev 14
6 And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, having an eternal gospel to preach to those who live on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people;
7 and he said with a loud voice, "" Fear God, and give Him glory, because the [b]hour of His judgment has come[/b]; worship Him who made the heaven and the earth and sea and springs of waters.'
'
8 And another angel, a second one, followed, saying, "" Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, she who has made all the nations drink of the wine of the passion of her immorality.''
9 Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, ""If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,
Rev 18 -- points to a second revival just before the second coming of Rev 19. This one emphasizes the end-time message of Rev 14.
Revelation 18
1 After these things I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority, and the earth was illumined with his glory.
2 And he cried out with a mighty voice, saying, "" Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great! She has become a dwelling place of demons and a prison of every unclean spirit, and a prison of every unclean and hateful bird.
3 ""For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the passion of her immorality, and the kings of the earth have committed acts of immorality with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich by the wealth of her sensuality.''
4 I heard another voice from heaven, saying, "" Come out of her, my people, so that you will not participate in her sins and receive of her plagues;
5 for her sins have piled up as high as heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.
In Joel this is the latter rain
Rev 14 declares that this revival message - this gospel about the judgment hour that HAS come - is to go out to everyone.
Rev 14
6 And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, having an eternal gospel to preach to those who live on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people;
7 and he said with a loud voice, "" Fear God, and give Him glory, because the [b]hour of His judgment has come[/b]; worship Him who made the heaven and the earth and sea and springs of waters.'
'
8 And another angel, a second one, followed, saying, "" Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, she who has made all the nations drink of the wine of the passion of her immorality.''
9 Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, ""If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,
Rev 18 -- points to a second revival just before the second coming of Rev 19. This one emphasizes the end-time message of Rev 14.
Revelation 18
1 After these things I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority, and the earth was illumined with his glory.
2 And he cried out with a mighty voice, saying, "" Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great! She has become a dwelling place of demons and a prison of every unclean spirit, and a prison of every unclean and hateful bird.
3 ""For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the passion of her immorality, and the kings of the earth have committed acts of immorality with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich by the wealth of her sensuality.''
4 I heard another voice from heaven, saying, "" Come out of her, my people, so that you will not participate in her sins and receive of her plagues;
5 for her sins have piled up as high as heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.
In Joel this is the latter rain
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
//Does the Bible teach a great revival before the
Second Coming of Jesus in power & glory to destroy the Antichrist
and set up a physical/literal Millennial Messanic Kingdom?//
No, for gentiles.
Yes, for Israeli Jews
Which part of my statement are you having problems with?
There is no revival prior to the pretribulation rapture among
the gentiles; the is a revival after the pretribulation rapture
but before the Revelation 19 Second Coming of Jesus to
destroy the antichrist and set up a PHYCICAL/LITERAL
EARTHLY MILLINNIAL MESSANIC KINGDOM.
Second Coming of Jesus in power & glory to destroy the Antichrist
and set up a physical/literal Millennial Messanic Kingdom?//
No, for gentiles.
Yes, for Israeli Jews
Which part of my statement are you having problems with?
There is no revival prior to the pretribulation rapture among
the gentiles; the is a revival after the pretribulation rapture
but before the Revelation 19 Second Coming of Jesus to
destroy the antichrist and set up a PHYCICAL/LITERAL
EARTHLY MILLINNIAL MESSANIC KINGDOM.
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
I see the gospel preached to all nations.
I don't see a big response LIKE AS IN A REVIVAL???
Revelation 14:6-7 (KJV1611 Edition):
Then I sawe another Angel flie in the mids of heauen,
hauing an euerlasting Gospel, to preach vnto them that dwell on the earth,
and to euery nation, and kinred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loude voyce,
Feare God, and giue glory to him:
for the houre of his iugdement is come:
and woriship him that made heauen and earth,
and the sea, and the fountaines of waters.
The fact that judgement is come seems to indicate it
is too late for a revival, to late to change one's mind,
to late, "to late", the dreadest sound a human can make.
I don't see a big response LIKE AS IN A REVIVAL???
Revelation 14:6-7 (KJV1611 Edition):
Then I sawe another Angel flie in the mids of heauen,
hauing an euerlasting Gospel, to preach vnto them that dwell on the earth,
and to euery nation, and kinred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loude voyce,
Feare God, and giue glory to him:
for the houre of his iugdement is come:
and woriship him that made heauen and earth,
and the sea, and the fountaines of waters.
The fact that judgement is come seems to indicate it
is too late for a revival, to late to change one's mind,
to late, "to late", the dreadest sound a human can make.
BobRyan said:
All these quotes are called "the Revelation of Jesus Christ". They SIMPLY describe the spreading of the GOSPEL of Jesus Christ. In the first place they had bearing on the early history of the Church; they have had bearing on the Church of all ages, today have, and in future will have.
Therefore it is called an "everlasting Gospel". They proclaim Christ, not world history or Church politics.
Ed Edwards:
"The fact that judgement is come seems to indicate it
is too late for a revival, to late to change one's mind,
to late, "to late", the dreadest sound a human can make."
GE:
'Judgement is come': Jesus saying of Himself: I come a judgement. He IS the great judgement of all time and peoples. He is the dividing factor. In Him are you saved; without Him you are lost.
First determine if that fancy has any substance, that fancy of a 'rapture', before asking about some supposed 'revival' just before it.
Also (for some other people), first determine if that fancy has any substance, that fancy of an 'investigative judgment', before asking about some supposed 'revival' just after it.
"The fact that judgement is come seems to indicate it
is too late for a revival, to late to change one's mind,
to late, "to late", the dreadest sound a human can make."
GE:
'Judgement is come': Jesus saying of Himself: I come a judgement. He IS the great judgement of all time and peoples. He is the dividing factor. In Him are you saved; without Him you are lost.
First determine if that fancy has any substance, that fancy of a 'rapture', before asking about some supposed 'revival' just before it.
Also (for some other people), first determine if that fancy has any substance, that fancy of an 'investigative judgment', before asking about some supposed 'revival' just after it.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
How do you keep doing that GE? -- typing without actually saying anything!
In the case of any text of scripture (including Rev 14) you have to actually pay attention to the details in the text - glossing over and ignoring what does not please you is not a kind of "exegesis" even if you are very very happy to respond to texts in that way. (as you certainly seem to be in that post above).
Try again.
In Christ,
Bob
BobRyan to GE:
"... typing without actually saying anything!
In the case of any text of scripture (including Rev 14) you have to actually pay attention to the details in the text ..."
GE:
The details as well as the overall picture proclaim the Gospel. If Christ and His saving grace cannot be discovered in there, then error begs to be introduced in there...
"... typing without actually saying anything!
In the case of any text of scripture (including Rev 14) you have to actually pay attention to the details in the text ..."
GE:
The details as well as the overall picture proclaim the Gospel. If Christ and His saving grace cannot be discovered in there, then error begs to be introduced in there...
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
When I speak of "Substance" and "detail" I mean - you actually have to read the text and respond to it --
Rev 14 points to a time WHEN the hour of God's judgment will have come -- WHILE people are still on the earth - before the second coming.
Rev 14 declares that this revival message - this gospel about the judgment hour that HAS come - is to go out to everyone.
Rev 14
6 And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, having an eternal gospel to preach to those who live on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people;
7 and he said with a loud voice, "" Fear God, and give Him glory, because the [b]hour of His judgment has come[/b]; worship Him who made the heaven and the earth and sea and springs of waters.'
'
8 And another angel, a second one, followed, saying, "" Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, she who has made all the nations drink of the wine of the passion of her immorality.''
9 Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, ""If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,
Rev 18 -- points to a second revival just before the second coming of Rev 19. This one emphasizes the end-time message of Rev 14.
Revelation 18
1 After these things I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority, and the earth was illumined with his glory.
2 And he cried out with a mighty voice, saying, "" Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great! She has become a dwelling place of demons and a prison of every unclean spirit, and a prison of every unclean and hateful bird.
3 ""For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the passion of her immorality, and the kings of the earth have committed acts of immorality with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich by the wealth of her sensuality.''
4 I heard another voice from heaven, saying, "" Come out of her, my people, so that you will not participate in her sins and receive of her plagues;
5 for her sins have piled up as high as heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.
In Joel this is the latter rain
Rev 14 points to a time WHEN the hour of God's judgment will have come -- WHILE people are still on the earth - before the second coming.
Rev 14 declares that this revival message - this gospel about the judgment hour that HAS come - is to go out to everyone.
Rev 14
6 And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, having an eternal gospel to preach to those who live on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people;
7 and he said with a loud voice, "" Fear God, and give Him glory, because the [b]hour of His judgment has come[/b]; worship Him who made the heaven and the earth and sea and springs of waters.'
'
8 And another angel, a second one, followed, saying, "" Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, she who has made all the nations drink of the wine of the passion of her immorality.''
9 Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, ""If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,
Rev 18 -- points to a second revival just before the second coming of Rev 19. This one emphasizes the end-time message of Rev 14.
Revelation 18
1 After these things I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority, and the earth was illumined with his glory.
2 And he cried out with a mighty voice, saying, "" Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great! She has become a dwelling place of demons and a prison of every unclean spirit, and a prison of every unclean and hateful bird.
3 ""For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the passion of her immorality, and the kings of the earth have committed acts of immorality with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich by the wealth of her sensuality.''
4 I heard another voice from heaven, saying, "" Come out of her, my people, so that you will not participate in her sins and receive of her plagues;
5 for her sins have piled up as high as heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.
In Joel this is the latter rain
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Uh, this turns me cold.
An Angeic message is mentioned;
judgement is announced,
people are forced to worship God.
There is no mention of sorrow for sins,
prayer, repentance, forgiviness, salvation,
or worshiping Gof for saving their souls.
These stories aren't about REVIVAL but
about God's just sentencing of people to DAMNATION.
An Angeic message is mentioned;
judgement is announced,
people are forced to worship God.
There is no mention of sorrow for sins,
prayer, repentance, forgiviness, salvation,
or worshiping Gof for saving their souls.
These stories aren't about REVIVAL but
about God's just sentencing of people to DAMNATION.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Rev 14 says that this is the preaching "of the everlasting GOSPEL" saying that the "hour of His judgment has come" and "fear God and give glory to Him" and a call to "WORSHIP" the creator.
In Romans 11 we see the same instruction "to FEAR" for "IF He did not spare them then neither will He spare you" speaking of those who would turn back from faith --
This is all "The Gospel" pointing us toward obedience and away from rebellion against God.
To cling to rebellion over obedience is not 'a kind of gospel' known to the NT authors.
In Romans 11 we see the same instruction "to FEAR" for "IF He did not spare them then neither will He spare you" speaking of those who would turn back from faith --
This is all "The Gospel" pointing us toward obedience and away from rebellion against God.
To cling to rebellion over obedience is not 'a kind of gospel' known to the NT authors.
Last edited by a moderator:
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
BobRyan: //Rev 14 says that this is the preaching
"of the everlasting GOSPEL" saying that
the "hour of His judgment has come" and
"fear God and give glory to Him" and
a call to "WORSHIP" the creator.//
How is it debating if you say the same thing I'm saying?
Ed: //An Angeic message is mentioned;
judgement is announced,
people are forced to worship God.
There is no mention of sorrow for sins,
prayer, repentance, forgiviness, salvation,
or worshiping Gof for saving their souls.//
I'm saying the same thing you are saying.
Wherein is the 'revival' in Revelation 14?
BobRyan: //In Romans 11 we see the same instruction "to FEAR" for "IF He did not spare them then neither will He spare you" speaking of those who would turn back from faith --//
We know from history that people responded to the message of
God such that today, 1/3 of humanity has responded somewhat to
the message of God - i.e. a revival. But nowhere is there predicted
a revival prior to my pretribulation rapture/resurrection
nor a revival of gentiles prior to your one and only
one Second Coming of Jesus
(the same Jesus who came twice to earth at the First Coming).
"of the everlasting GOSPEL" saying that
the "hour of His judgment has come" and
"fear God and give glory to Him" and
a call to "WORSHIP" the creator.//
How is it debating if you say the same thing I'm saying?
Ed: //An Angeic message is mentioned;
judgement is announced,
people are forced to worship God.
There is no mention of sorrow for sins,
prayer, repentance, forgiviness, salvation,
or worshiping Gof for saving their souls.//
I'm saying the same thing you are saying.
Wherein is the 'revival' in Revelation 14?
BobRyan: //In Romans 11 we see the same instruction "to FEAR" for "IF He did not spare them then neither will He spare you" speaking of those who would turn back from faith --//
We know from history that people responded to the message of
God such that today, 1/3 of humanity has responded somewhat to
the message of God - i.e. a revival. But nowhere is there predicted
a revival prior to my pretribulation rapture/resurrection
nor a revival of gentiles prior to your one and only
one Second Coming of Jesus
(the same Jesus who came twice to earth at the First Coming).
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Christ is in Rev 14 "and the everlasting Gospel" that is being preached!
Rev 14 points to a time WHEN the hour of God's judgment will have come -- WHILE people are still on the earth - before the second coming.
Rev 14 declares that this revival message - this gospel about the judgment hour that HAS come - is to go out to everyone.
Rev 14
6 And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, having an eternal gospel to preach to those who live on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people;
7 and he said with a loud voice, "" Fear God, and give Him glory, because the [b]hour of His judgment has come[/b]; worship Him who made the heaven and the earth and sea and springs of waters.'
'
8 And another angel, a second one, followed, saying, "" Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, she who has made all the nations drink of the wine of the passion of her immorality.''
9 Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, ""If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,
Rev 18 -- points to a second revival just before the second coming of Rev 19. This one emphasizes the end-time message of Rev 14.
Revelation 18
1 After these things I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority, and the earth was illumined with his glory.
2 And he cried out with a mighty voice, saying, "" Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great! She has become a dwelling place of demons and a prison of every unclean spirit, and a prison of every unclean and hateful bird.
3 ""For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the passion of her immorality, and the kings of the earth have committed acts of immorality with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich by the wealth of her sensuality.''
4 I heard another voice from heaven, saying, "" Come out of her, my people, so that you will not participate in her sins and receive of her plagues;
5 for her sins have piled up as high as heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.
In Joel this is the latter rain
Rev 14 points to a time WHEN the hour of God's judgment will have come -- WHILE people are still on the earth - before the second coming.
Rev 14 declares that this revival message - this gospel about the judgment hour that HAS come - is to go out to everyone.
Rev 14
6 And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, having an eternal gospel to preach to those who live on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people;
7 and he said with a loud voice, "" Fear God, and give Him glory, because the [b]hour of His judgment has come[/b]; worship Him who made the heaven and the earth and sea and springs of waters.'
'
8 And another angel, a second one, followed, saying, "" Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, she who has made all the nations drink of the wine of the passion of her immorality.''
9 Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, ""If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,
Rev 18 -- points to a second revival just before the second coming of Rev 19. This one emphasizes the end-time message of Rev 14.
Revelation 18
1 After these things I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority, and the earth was illumined with his glory.
2 And he cried out with a mighty voice, saying, "" Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great! She has become a dwelling place of demons and a prison of every unclean spirit, and a prison of every unclean and hateful bird.
3 ""For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the passion of her immorality, and the kings of the earth have committed acts of immorality with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich by the wealth of her sensuality.''
4 I heard another voice from heaven, saying, "" Come out of her, my people, so that you will not participate in her sins and receive of her plagues;
5 for her sins have piled up as high as heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.
In Joel this is the latter rain
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Sorry, a revival message by an angel where there is no mention
of folks getting saved DOES NOT CONSTITUTE A REVIVAL.
Rev 9:20-21 (KJV1611 Edition):
And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues,
yet repented not of the works of their hands,
that they should not worship deuils, and idoles of golde,
and siluer, and brasse, and stone, and of wood,
which neither can see, nor heare, nor walke:
Rev 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders,
nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.
Sort of an anti-revival going on?
There is not likelly to be a revival going on when the
pretribualtion rapture happens. There will NOT be a revival
going on among the gentiles during the Tribulation Period.
prior to the coming of Jesus in Power and Glory to destory
the Antichrist and set up a physical/literal Millinnial Messanic
Kingdom.
of folks getting saved DOES NOT CONSTITUTE A REVIVAL.
Rev 9:20-21 (KJV1611 Edition):
And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues,
yet repented not of the works of their hands,
that they should not worship deuils, and idoles of golde,
and siluer, and brasse, and stone, and of wood,
which neither can see, nor heare, nor walke:
Rev 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders,
nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.
Sort of an anti-revival going on?
There is not likelly to be a revival going on when the
pretribualtion rapture happens. There will NOT be a revival
going on among the gentiles during the Tribulation Period.
prior to the coming of Jesus in Power and Glory to destory
the Antichrist and set up a physical/literal Millinnial Messanic
Kingdom.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
There are many ways to imagine "the Bible does not mean what it says" - but in Rev 14 "Preaching the EVERLASTING GOSPEL" to the WHOLE EARTH is in fact a revival of light and gospel in the last days.
If your view is that there are "MANY GOSPELS and this is the one that days NOT call for repentance" then you have Gal 1:6-11 to deal with that says "There is ONLY ONE GOSPEL" in all of time past present and future.
If you work hard at trying to insert "another gospel" in Rev 14 - one that does not include repentance - then you are taking a long walk off a short dock/peer/ramp/bridge/catwalk....
In Christ,
Bob
If your view is that there are "MANY GOSPELS and this is the one that days NOT call for repentance" then you have Gal 1:6-11 to deal with that says "There is ONLY ONE GOSPEL" in all of time past present and future.
If you work hard at trying to insert "another gospel" in Rev 14 - one that does not include repentance - then you are taking a long walk off a short dock/peer/ramp/bridge/catwalk....
In Christ,
Bob
Bob,
That "Great Revival" described in the Book of Revelation will look more like this:
Revelation 6:14-17 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
That "Great Revival" described in the Book of Revelation will look more like this:
Revelation 6:14-17 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
There is one Gospel.
People who accept it get saved.
People who reject it stay lost.
Nothing in Revelation 14 says that
Gentiles get saved by accepting the
Gospel preached by the Angels.
Anyway, what is an angel doing preaching
the Gospel? Shouldn't all the Christians there
be preaching the Gospel? There are no
Christains there, they got taken before the Trib.
People who accept it get saved.
People who reject it stay lost.
Nothing in Revelation 14 says that
Gentiles get saved by accepting the
Gospel preached by the Angels.
Anyway, what is an angel doing preaching
the Gospel? Shouldn't all the Christians there
be preaching the Gospel? There are no
Christains there, they got taken before the Trib.
BobRyan said:
GE:
This is one time BobRyan has it ALL, just right! What nonsense is this 'rapture' business!