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Does the catholic Church see ONLY few are saints?
- Thread starter Yeshua1
- Start date
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
I don't know what you are trying to say. The Apostlate were those 12 Men selected by Jesus to be sent out and spread His gospel to make disciples of all men. These Apostles then called men of Good Character to be the Episcopate (Bishops) and Presbyters (Priest) and the Apostles created the Deaconate (Deacons) as seen in the book of Acts. They had special administrative rolls leading the Church according to their function.
Bible states that ALL believers are called and seen by God as being both priests and saints to God...
Due to being relationship to god thru Christ, NOT having to 'earn" that state !be
Confusion reigns.
I have shown before that all the words you have used in your post above are simply functions of the same person, the pastor of the church. This can be shown very easily from Scripture, from Acts chapter 20:
Acts 20:17 And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church.
--Paul calls the elders or pastors of the church from Ephesus.
The Greek word here is presbuteros, the same Greek work that is used here:
1 Timothy 4:14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.
--The presbytery are the elders or the pastors.
The WEB translates it this way:
1 Timothy 4:14 Don't neglect the gift that is in you, which was given to you by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the elders.
Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
The Greek word for overseers is episkopos from which you get episkopate. However, it is translated "bishop" in 1Tim.3:1.
A bishop or pastor is the overseer of the church. So is the elder or pastor.
What is he told to do in this verse? He is to oversee all the flock...to feed the church of God. That is what Jesus told Peter to do. "Feed my sheep...feed my lambs." It is the work of a shepherd; a pastor. Pastor means shepherd. It is described here in this verse.
We have all the words and work of the office of the pastor here in these two verses. Paul is speaking to the same group of people, the elders/pastors that he called from Ephesus to Miletus. They are the pastors of the church, also called bishops and elders.
In Acts chapter six, the church at Jerusalem had grown immensely; some say to over 100,000. The Apostles needed help with the mundane affairs of the church. There is no mention of the word deacon in this passage. They were to select seven men to help with this work. This is not an office. They were to be servants of the church "to serve tables," as the KJV puts it. Yet their qualifications were high.
There is no "office" of a deacon. If you study the Greek the word "office" is not there. It is the service of a deacon.
Look where the translators of the KJV used the word:
1 Timothy 3:13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.
Darby, in this case is far more accurate:
1 Timothy 3:13 for those who shall have ministered well obtain for themselves a good degree, and much boldness in faith which [is] in Christ Jesus.
Diakonos simply means servant. It is not an office.
There is but one "office" and he is the pastor. The pastor also is a servant of the people. There is no hierarchy in the church. That is all man-made. There is no apostolate. One apostle was never greater than another.
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
Yes all believers are saints. And everyone in heaven is a saint. And there is no one in heaven who isn't a saint. I think what you are confusing is that the people who are identified as "saint" or canonized. These "saints" are people who have lived exemplary lives which stand as a model for the rest of us. This doesn't mean that if you are not canonized then you are not a saint. In fact many are saints that have not been canonized for many reasons. But that doesn't mean these people aren't Saints.