Does The Doctrine Of OSAS Give License To Sin?

[tyndale1946]

I have heard this all my life... If I believe the way you do I would have my fill of sin, I'm bound for heaven anyway... My reply is "You can try!... I believe Gods people are his people and are bought and owned by him they are bought with a price... I also believe that they can be a rebellious house and scripture teaches us that fact... But he NEVER will withdraw his saving grace from them... They maybe bound for Heaven but the Lord can put you through a living Hell getting there... That being said the doctrine of OSAS does not give any of us license to sin... Remember... Every now and then God takes his disobedient children to his Holy Woodshed... But where sin abounded grace did much more abound!... Brother Glen

Hebrews 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Hebrews 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

12:10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

 

[Revmitchell]

Rom 5:19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.
Rom 5:20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,
Rom 5:21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Dead to Sin, Alive to God
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?
Rom 6:3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.
Rom 6:6 We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.

 

[tyndale1946]

Rom 5:19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.
Rom 5:20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,
Rom 5:21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Dead to Sin, Alive to God
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?
Rom 6:3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.
Rom 6:6 We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.

So true that is and then there is this... Brother Glen

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

 

[Pastor Sam]

I have heard this all my life... If I believe the way you do I would have my fill of sin, I'm bound for heaven anyway... My reply is "You can try!... I believe Gods people are his people and are bought and owned by him they are bought with a price... I also believe that they can be a rebellious house and scripture teaches us that fact... But he NEVER will withdraw his saving grace from them... They maybe bound for Heaven but the Lord can put you through a living Hell getting there... That being said the doctrine of OSAS does not give any of us license to sin... Remember... Every now and then God takes his disobedient children to his Holy Woodshed... But where sin abounded grace did much more abound!... Brother Glen

Hebrews 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Hebrews 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

12:10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Many of the folks I have dealt with don’t take into account what they might have to go through ‘getting there’ and so they reject it. If I gave someone a gift and then if the weren’t taking care of it I went and took it back, they would think I was nuts. God isn’t going tp give us the gift of salvation and then take it away from us later because we were bad. He is going to help us want to do right. If you know what I mean.

 

[tyndale1946]

Many of the folks I have dealt with don’t take into account what they might have to go through ‘getting there’ and so they reject it. If I gave someone a gift and then if the weren’t taking care of it I went and took it back, they would think I was nuts. God isn’t going tp give us the gift of salvation and then take it away from us later because we were bad. He is going to help us want to do right. If you know what I mean.

I hear you preacher and then there is Paul!... Brother Glen

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

[Salty]

NO - OSAS is NOT a license to sin.

 

[glad4mercy]

I have heard this all my life... If I believe the way you do I would have my fill of sin, I'm bound for heaven anyway... My reply is "You can try!... I believe Gods people are his people and are bought and owned by him they are bought with a price... I also believe that they can be a rebellious house and scripture teaches us that fact... But he NEVER will withdraw his saving grace from them... They maybe bound for Heaven but the Lord can put you through a living Hell getting there... That being said the doctrine of OSAS does not give any of us license to sin... Remember... Every now and then God takes his disobedient children to his Holy Woodshed... But where sin abounded grace did much more abound!... Brother Glen

Hebrews 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Hebrews 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

12:10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

If a person is truly right with God, they will not look for a license to sin, nor will they use a doctrine or teaching as a license to sin. True repentance does not look for opportunities to trifle with Grace. With that said, I don't go by OSAS, but I do believe in the Security of the Believer. But security applies to those who believe, ie present tense. Temporary faith does not profit.

 

[TCassidy]

I had a pentecostal preacher say that to me one day. I replied to him by saying "If you still want to go live like the devil maybe you should check your salvation. If you are truly saved, God changed your "wanter." The things you used to want you no longer want and the things you never wanted before are the things you want now."

In my experience, those who deny the eternal security of the believer, may not be saved at all, because when Christ saves us, He saves us "to the uttermost." For all eternity.

Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

As Christ is ever living to make intercession for us, the only way for us to lose our salvation would be for Christ to die, physically and spiritually, never to live again.

The pentecostal denial of eternal security fits right into the satanic "God is Dead" philosophy of Nietzsche.

 

[tyndale1946]

I had a pentecostal preacher say that to me one day. I replied to him by saying "If you still want to go live like the devil maybe you should check your salvation. If you are truly saved, God changed your "wanter." The things you used to want you no longer want and the things you never wanted before are the things you want now."

In my experience, those who deny the eternal security of the believer, may not be saved at all, because when Christ saves us, He saves us "to the uttermost." For all eternity.

Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

As Christ is ever living to make intercession for us, the only way for us to lose our salvation would be for Christ to die, physically and spiritually, never to live again.

The pentecostal denial of eternal security fits right into the satanic "God is Dead" philosophy of Nietzsche.

Yeah TC I prefer Eternal Security to OSAS and then there are these verses from Isaiah... Brother Glen

Isaiah 49:13 Sing, O heavens; and be joyful, O earth; and break forth into singing, O mountains: for the LORD hath comforted his people, and will have mercy upon his afflicted.

49:14 But Zion said, The LORD hath forsaken me, and my Lord hath forgotten me.

49:15 Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee.

49:16 Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands; thy walls are continually before me.

 

[Yeshua1]

NO - OSAS is NOT a license to sin.

ONLY those those who totally understand what it means, and who are looking for a license to keep on their pet sin anyways!

 

[glad4mercy]

(T. Cassidy quote- I had a pentecostal preacher say that to me one day. I replied to him by saying "If you still want to go live like the devil maybe you should check your salvation. If you are truly saved, God changed your "wanter." The things you used to want you no longer want and the things you never wanted before are the things you want now.")

Yes, if the only reason you're not sinning is because you believe you'll lose your salvation if you do is a dubious motivation. Righteous living should be rooted in love and relationship, not in mere slavish fear. A true Christian flees from sin because it is not in His regenerate nature to sin. A sheep may fall in the mud (commit an act of sin), but he or she will not wallow in it like a pig. It is not in their nature. 1 John 3: 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. This verse does not mean sinless perfection, but it does mean that sin should not be the rule in a life of a believer.

Yet besides this, there is still a sense in which we battle the flesh. The flesh lusts after the things of the flesh and the Spirit desires the things of God. SO we need to be careful not to feed the flesh so as to not be entangled. It is possible to lapse, if we are careless. Security is not a licence to carelessness or laxity. The Spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. If we walk after the Spirit, the righteousness of God's Law will be fulfilled in us.

As far as Security, if my life is with Christ, I am secure. No one can snatch me out of His Hand. This knowledge is sufficient for me.

 

[revmwc]

No it isn't a license to sin it is a license to serve. When we confess sin we can begin to serve after sinning.

 

[rockytopva]

I worked with three ladies in my factory making samples. These ladies were all Baptist, cheerful, decent, and I would not doubt if they were to tell me they were eternally saved, especially as I don't see it in their character. And this was also true of the old people in the Baptist church I was brought up in.

And then my generation came along.

In the Baptist church I was brought up in we had a large youth group and all the adults thought of them as angels and good saved Christians. That was until someone busted them in one of their dope smoking parties. I also met a lady who is in her fifties as well as I. This lady was Baptist, single, never married, and I thought we were the perfect fit... But the more that woman talked... Come to find out that she sees nothing wrong with the party or sex scene. I finally, after enduring much talk on carnality, said to her, "You know I don't believe you can do those things and get to heaven." Almost immediately she replies, "Are you trying to threaten my salvation?"

Of all the young people I know growing up not a one of them shows any fruit of Christianity. The matters of eternal significance are the furthest thing from their carnal mind. I believe that the Lord also takes issues with this...

He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. - Revelation 3:5

And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. - Mark 13:13

This is my main gripe against Calvinism, and that is it gives people a false sense of eternal security. This is a race to be run and not a destination at some point of doctrinal sense.

 

[Judith]

I have heard this all my life... If I believe the way you do I would have my fill of sin, I'm bound for heaven anyway... My reply is "You can try!... I believe Gods people are his people and are bought and owned by him they are bought with a price... I also believe that they can be a rebellious house and scripture teaches us that fact... But he NEVER will withdraw his saving grace from them... They maybe bound for Heaven but the Lord can put you through a living Hell getting there... That being said the doctrine of OSAS does not give any of us license to sin... Remember... Every now and then God takes his disobedient children to his Holy Woodshed... But where sin abounded grace did much more abound!... Brother Glen

Hebrews 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Hebrews 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

12:10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Like most who claim to be saved I think you have forgotten that it is a narrow gate and a straight path. People who are truly Christians do not practice sin as you seem to suggest. 1 John 3:9 They are those who take up their cross daily and follow after the Lord Jesus.

Sadly today far too many are offering salvation in terms that God never intended.

We do not get saved (go to heaven) by praying a prayer, being baptized, asking Jesus into our hearts, accepting Jesus as our personal Saviour, confessing our sins, joining a church, cleaning up our lives, doing penance, taking the bread and the wine, or doing all these thing accumulative.

Salvation takes repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, Acts 20:21. Make no mistake. We cannot be a friend of Christ and remain a rebel against God. The word repent, from the Greek word “metanoia”, means a change of mind or direction. That change is not 50%, 75%, or 99%. It is 100% or we are not repenting.

God is not receiving those who almost or kind of repent. It is like the word about face which is a 180 degree turn. We turn from not wanting God fully in our lives to accepting Him fully in our lives.

When any person comes to the place where they are broken over their sin to the point they want to get right with God no matter what it will cost them they are in a state/spirit of repentance toward God.

We then take that heart we have towards God and place it on the Lord Jesus Christ as Lord and Master and that becomes faith. At that moment God’s grace through Christ is applied to us and we are born again, saved from eternal hell and sealed by the Spirit so that we will never again return to the practice of sinning. 1John 3:9,10.

Repentance of sin is the result of the new birth/salvation and will be part of the sanctification process and our new life with the Lord Jesus Christ, Eph 2:10. While we may sin from time to time after salvation it will not be our practice 1John 3:9,10.

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

 

[glad4mercy]

Like most who claim to be saved I think you have forgotten that it is a narrow gate and a straight path. People who are truly Christians do not practice sin as you seem to suggest. 1 John 3:9 They are those who take up their cross daily and follow after the Lord Jesus.

Sadly today far too many are offering salvation in terms that God never intended.

We do not get saved (go to heaven) by praying a prayer, being baptized, asking Jesus into our hearts, accepting Jesus as our personal Saviour, confessing our sins, joining a church, cleaning up our lives, doing penance, taking the bread and the wine, or doing all these thing accumulative.

Salvation takes repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, Acts 20:21. Make no mistake. We cannot be a friend of Christ and remain a rebel against God. The word repent, from the Greek word “metanoia”, means a change of mind or direction. That change is not 50%, 75%, or 99%. It is 100% or we are not repenting.

God is not receiving those who almost or kind of repent. It is like the word about face which is a 180 degree turn. We turn from not wanting God fully in our lives to accepting Him fully in our lives.

When any person comes to the place where they are broken over their sin to the point they want to get right with God no matter what it will cost them they are in a state/spirit of repentance toward God.

We then take that heart we have towards God and place it on the Lord Jesus Christ as Lord and Master and that becomes faith. At that moment God’s grace through Christ is applied to us and we are born again, saved from eternal hell and sealed by the Spirit so that we will never again return to the practice of sinning. 1John 3:9,10.

Repentance of sin is the result of the new birth/salvation and will be part of the sanctification process and our new life with the Lord Jesus Christ, Eph 2:10. While we may sin from time to time after salvation it will not be our practice 1John 3:9,10.

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Well said!

 

[glad4mercy]

I worked with three ladies in my factory making samples. These ladies were all Baptist, cheerful, decent, and I would not doubt if they were to tell me they were eternally saved, especially as I don't see it in their character. And this was also true of the old people in the Baptist church I was brought up in.

And then my generation came along.

In the Baptist church I was brought up in we had a large youth group and all the adults thought of them as angels and good saved Christians. That was until someone busted them in one of their dope smoking parties. I also met a lady who is in her fifties as well as I. This lady was Baptist, single, never married, and I thought we were the perfect fit... But the more that woman talked... Come to find out that she sees nothing wrong with the party or sex scene. I finally, after enduring much talk on carnality, said to her, "You know I don't believe you can do those things and get to heaven." Almost immediately she replies, "Are you trying to threaten my salvation?"

Of all the young people I know growing up not a one of them shows any fruit of Christianity. The matters of eternal significance are the furthest thing from their carnal mind. I believe that the Lord also takes issues with this...

He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. - Revelation 3:5

And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. - Mark 13:13

This is my main gripe against Calvinism, and that is it gives people a false sense of eternal security. This is a race to be run and not a destination at some point of doctrinal sense.

If your heart is truly right, you will live right whether you believe in OSAS or not.

If your heart is not right, you will not live right whether you believe in OSAS or not.

That said, I do not say OSAS because of the confusion it sometimes brings, but I do believe in the Security of the believer. Jesus' sheep hear His voice, He knows them and they follow Him. He gives them eternal life, and they shall never perish neither shall any one snatch them out of His hand. If we are His sheep we will listen to His voice and follow Him. If we are His sheep we will never perish and no one can snatch us out of Jesus' hand. The Crux is "are we His sheep or not?"

Because if your heart is truly right, you will not remain in sin. You may slip and fall into the mud (commit an act of sin), but you will not wallow there (making it your home) , because you are a sheep and sheep don't like to wallow in mud and it's not where they want to live.

Yet we still need to daily walk after the SPIRIT and not after the flesh.

 

[atpollard]

Actually, if one is not saved, then one is a SLAVE to sin and has no real choice but to follow our old nature and sin, baby, sin. (Ephesians 2:1-3)

It is only through salvation in Christ that we gain the freedom from sin (the ability to want to do right). (1 John 5:1-5)

So the idea that a Persevering Saint (OSAS) has a license to sin is just plain silly. We already had an addiction to sin and no way to stop until God stepped in and did something to ‘grace’ us with a new life.

 

[Reformed]

Since the OP was made in the Calvinist/Arminian debate forum, it needs to be stated that Calvinists do not believe in OSAS; they believe in the perseverance of the saints. There is a difference. OSAS is rooted in antinomianism. Say the prayer, get the Jesus insurance policy, and never question your salvation (no matter how ungodly your life is). Perseverance of the saints teaches that those who are truly saved are kept by the Holy Spirit and are in the on-going process of being conformed to the image of Christ. They may have serious bouts with sin, but the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit is ever-present in their lives. As a rule, OSAS is satisfied with one's decision for Christ, whereas perseverance of the saints is concerned with growing in the Christian life and becoming more like Christ.

 

[glad4mercy]

Since the OP was made in the Calvinist/Arminian debate forum, it needs to be stated that Calvinists do not believe in OSAS; they believe in the perseverance of the saints. There is a difference. OSAS is rooted in antinomianism. Say the prayer, get the Jesus insurance policy, and never question your salvation (no matter how ungodly your life is). Perseverance of the saints teaches that those who are truly saved are kept by the Holy Spirit and are in the on-going process of being conformed to the image of Christ. They may have serious bouts with sin, but the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit is ever-present in their lives. As a rule, OSAS is satisfied with one's decision for Christ, whereas perseverance of the saints is concerned with growing in the Christian life and becoming more like Christ.

Very good post.

 

[Alcott]

Does The Doctrine Of OSAS Give License To Sin?

If it is/does, it's a license that expires the second you sign it.