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Does the grace Of God cover ALL Under "Age of Accountibility/"
- Thread starter Yeshua1
- Start date
freeatlast
New Member
There is no such thing as "age of accountability" taught in the bible. That is a man made teaching.
Do you How do you see God handling those persons such as infants/challanged/kids false religions/athestic homes etc?
God knows who are His despite age, race, or gender. That's is the miracle of His grace. It goes before and beyond such outward characteristics and rests solely in His sovereign will. I believe He saves those infants and those unable to comprehend their sin and the Gospel. I do not have direct biblical support. I base it on His revealed character as being gracious, being love, and being just. Regardless of the person involved it is still His righteousness being applied to us according to His will. If He does not save those infants and those unable to comprehend the Gospel it is still His will and according to Romans 9, He has that right and I am not in a position to question Him. And, I am good with that.
freeatlast
New Member
My understanding that every person is born under the curse and they are sinners and will stand the judgment unless they are born again. However I will go as far as to say that knowing the mercy of God there may be some provision He has made for people who's mental ability prevents them from understanding the gospel and their need. I would not go any further then that however. In other words it has nothing to do with being raised under a false religion or no religion.
Or from a Calvinistic viewpoint they may not be part of the elect anyway so their age would not make a difference.
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What idf the Lord decided to Elect those who would be included in those 'special cases" groups though?
freeatlast
New Member
I cannot answer since there is no scriptural support for such and it would mean there is another way into heaven besides faith which I reject as does the scripture.
Tom Butler
New Member
Do the following verses, spoken by Jesus, provide us with any help?
Matthew 18:3
Mark 10:14
Matthew 18:3
Mark 10:14
freeatlast
New Member
Tom if that means what I assume you are suggesting then it also has to mean we can lose our salvation since children grow into adults that are lost.
However the passage is supporting faith as the only way and is saying that we must come to the point where we trust like a child. If you tell a child that the moon is made of cheese or there is a Santa Clause or Easter bunny, they believe you because of the trust/faith they have in an adult. We must come to the point of putting that kind of faith in Christ. That is the intent of the passage, not to teach that children are all or automatically saved.
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there is also this:
2Sa 12:21 Then his servants said to him, "What is this thing that you have done? While the child was alive, you fasted and wept; but when the child died, you arose and ate food."
2Sa 12:22 He said, "While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept; for I said, 'Who knows, the LORD may be gracious to me, that the child may live.'
2Sa 12:23 "But now he has died; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me."
2Sa 12:21 Then his servants said to him, "What is this thing that you have done? While the child was alive, you fasted and wept; but when the child died, you arose and ate food."
2Sa 12:22 He said, "While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept; for I said, 'Who knows, the LORD may be gracious to me, that the child may live.'
2Sa 12:23 "But now he has died; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me."
freeatlast
New Member
.
That passage only proves that the child was dead and one day David would be dead. If people are so sure that all children go to be with the Lord then we need to pray that the Lord take them all before they become lost.
Do those verses say anything other than: Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
We had a missionary at our church who had been to Japan and he was speaking of how hard it was to convert them from their beliefs and the first thought that came to mind was if there were an age of accountability how many children were saved by the dropping of the atomic bombs.
Now that is weird. But then again God does work in mysterious ways. Huh!
They shall be saved:
For by grace are ye saved through (the) faith; and that not of yourselves:the gift of God: ------Eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Of course my understanding of that verse is quite different from others.
Search posts by Percho
For by grace are ye saved through (the) faith; and that not of yourselves:the gift of God: ------Eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Of course my understanding of that verse is quite different from others.
Search posts by Percho
I tend to have then hopeful thought that ALL children (and those that always lacked mental capabilities) who die are covered under the grace of God. Part of God's grace to some of His elect can include that they are saved from the experiential aspects of a volitional unregenerate heart.
I do not agree with the Arminian "age of accountability" idea that such people are saved because they never reached "accountability." I believe the Scriptures are clear that there is no one intrinsically innocent before God and that all are sinners from conception and birth (Psalm 51:5; 58:3). All who are saved are so because of the grace of God, not because they contributed something autonomously to God, nor because they are intrinsically innocent.
I cannot prove my position with Scripture, but it has the same systematic assumptions as does the "age of accountability."
I do not agree with the Arminian "age of accountability" idea that such people are saved because they never reached "accountability." I believe the Scriptures are clear that there is no one intrinsically innocent before God and that all are sinners from conception and birth (Psalm 51:5; 58:3). All who are saved are so because of the grace of God, not because they contributed something autonomously to God, nor because they are intrinsically innocent.
I cannot prove my position with Scripture, but it has the same systematic assumptions as does the "age of accountability."
I've always had trouble meshing the idea of an "age of accountability" with Scripture. For whatever reason, God did not see fit to give us a clear answer to the question of what happens to the unborn & infants when they die. However, I only see three possible responses to the parents of a deceased child. If this theology is false, then we give the parents a false hope. Or we cruelly say that they are without hope without a confession of faith. Or, we say that they will just have to hope the child is part of the elect apart from faith in Christ. These positions cannot all be true, yet one must be true. This can be a difficult topic to discuss with "average" Christians who will likely respond with emotionalism over Biblical theology.
BTW, I've never heard a Calvinist preacher tell grieving parents that they are without hope unless the child was hopefully, maybe part of the elect. Given the percentage of believers in the world, that would be a slim chance indeed.
As a side note, what think ye of the following passage in the context of this discussion?
But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace. For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife? (1Cor 7:12-16)
BTW, I've never heard a Calvinist preacher tell grieving parents that they are without hope unless the child was hopefully, maybe part of the elect. Given the percentage of believers in the world, that would be a slim chance indeed.
As a side note, what think ye of the following passage in the context of this discussion?
But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace. For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife? (1Cor 7:12-16)
Because Christ holds the keys of death, life, heaven and hell, the case of this thread is totally within God's own scheme.
No death anywhere in the world occurs without Christ's approval, no life occurs anywhere in the world without Christ's approval, no one goes to heaven without Christ's approval, and no one is cast into hell and eventually into the lake of fire without Christ's approval.
2Ti 2:19
No death anywhere in the world occurs without Christ's approval, no life occurs anywhere in the world without Christ's approval, no one goes to heaven without Christ's approval, and no one is cast into hell and eventually into the lake of fire without Christ's approval.
2Ti 2:19
Nevertheless the foundation of God stands sure, having this seal, The Lord knows them that are his. And, Let every one that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
There are many dogma we believe for which there is not singular Scripture for which to point but come out of (dare I say it) tradition.
Where in the Scripture is there a list of inspired NT books? This took 2 to 3 centuries of debate to develop.
Even the 1611 KJV contained the Apocryphal books which the translaters said "are profitable and good to read" in the introductory preface.
Yet these books were a great source of Church of Rome error.
Same for the doctrine of the Trinity. The doctrine of the Trinity was not a church defined dogma until it was decided as such in the Council of Nicea in AD325.
The "age of accountabilty" is another such doctrine which BTW predates Jacob Arminius.
This is my preferential choice and I am by no means arminian.
HankD
Where in the Scripture is there a list of inspired NT books? This took 2 to 3 centuries of debate to develop.
Even the 1611 KJV contained the Apocryphal books which the translaters said "are profitable and good to read" in the introductory preface.
Yet these books were a great source of Church of Rome error.
Same for the doctrine of the Trinity. The doctrine of the Trinity was not a church defined dogma until it was decided as such in the Council of Nicea in AD325.
The "age of accountabilty" is another such doctrine which BTW predates Jacob Arminius.
This is my preferential choice and I am by no means arminian.
HankD
I believe every single child, who dies before they have an understanding of right and wrong, are and were elect from before the foundation of the Earth, and purchased by the blood of Christ.
Children are born sinners and sinful. Fully deserving of wrath, yet not having this sin credited to their account, until such time as they have the mental capacity to sin with a full understanding that it is wrong. The sin is not credited to their account, until they sin, "With knowledge."
Rom 7:9 I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died.
Rom 7:10 The very commandment that promised life proved to be death to me.
Rom 7:11 For sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me.
ALSO:
Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned--
Rom 5:13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.
We see a couple of things in these verses: #1, There is a time when someone does not have the law. #2 They are "alive." #3 When knowledge of the law comes, they "die" thus fulfilling what is said in Romans 5:12.
I think this understanding is crucial, rather than the more "popular" understanding of the "age of accountability." God does NOT save children because they are "innocent." Children are every bit as sinful and wretched as anyone else, and deserving of the wrath of God. Yet, they are preserved through the mercy of God, until such time as they willfully sin. This is not an age, but a level of understanding.
Children are born sinners and sinful. Fully deserving of wrath, yet not having this sin credited to their account, until such time as they have the mental capacity to sin with a full understanding that it is wrong. The sin is not credited to their account, until they sin, "With knowledge."
Rom 7:9 I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died.
Rom 7:10 The very commandment that promised life proved to be death to me.
Rom 7:11 For sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me.
ALSO:
Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned--
Rom 5:13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.
We see a couple of things in these verses: #1, There is a time when someone does not have the law. #2 They are "alive." #3 When knowledge of the law comes, they "die" thus fulfilling what is said in Romans 5:12.
I think this understanding is crucial, rather than the more "popular" understanding of the "age of accountability." God does NOT save children because they are "innocent." Children are every bit as sinful and wretched as anyone else, and deserving of the wrath of God. Yet, they are preserved through the mercy of God, until such time as they willfully sin. This is not an age, but a level of understanding.